FAR AIM | Aviation Reg's | Aeronautical Info | FARAIM
A Drinking Podcast; That Sometimes Talks About Airplanes And Learning To Fly. A Private Pilot, A Commercial Pilot And An Airline Transport Pilot (ATP) As Hosts. They Got Board With The FAR AIM Book Years Ago But Are To Lazy To Change The Podcast Name (or do any show prep whatsoever for that matter). Welcome To The Oddest, Most Irreverent And Controversial Pilot Podcast In America.
FAR AIM | Aviation Reg's | Aeronautical Info | FARAIM
#135 | Taking Flight: Discovery Flights, Choosing the Right School, and Embracing Aviation Opportunities
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We didn't realize how drastically our lives would change when we each took a discovery flight for the first time. Join us for a unique episode of the Far Aim Podcast, as we - Barb Sutton, Jared Johnson, and Tyler Brunkhorst - take over and share our personal experiences in finding flight schools and taking the first steps towards a thrilling career in aviation. From Barb's grounding experience in the air to Jared's life-changing chance encounter at an airport, we all agree that discovery flights are a must for anyone considering aviation.
As former guests of the show, we discuss the importance of finding an instructor who shares your goals and is invested in your success. Navigating through different flight schools and curricula can be challenging, but it's crucial to find the right fit for your learning style and personal needs. In this episode, we discuss the role of family, career, and other constraints in selecting the right flight school. Discover how Jared eventually found the perfect instructor and how his journey through aviation led him to teach and be part of the community even when he wasn't actively flying.
While pursuing aviation can be both challenging and costly, we explore ways of making it a priority in your life and embracing the opportunities that come with it. Jared shares unforgettable moments from his aviation journey, such as flying side-by-side with an F-18 and hearing a supersonic boom that echoed across multiple states. Listen in as we discuss the various resources, programs, and opportunities available for aspiring pilots, as well as the importance of having a solid foundation in the fundamentals of flight. Get ready to be inspired and let your aviation dreams take flight!
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Welcome to the Far Aim podcast. I'm Tyler Brokehorse.
Speaker 3:I'm Barbara Sutton.
Speaker 2:And I'm Jared Johnson. This is a takeover. This is episode 135. We are former guests of the show that have taken over the show. Rob Lee and Scott are out on vacation, I think somewhere together in Florida.
Speaker 2:We don't know where they are, But here we are And today we are taking over this podcast and it's a demonstration of peer pressure. This original concept was just a funny idea in chat, and here we are, the three of us taking over the Far Aim podcast, and so today we are going to talk about finding a flight school. And how did we find our flight schools? So the most recent entry into being a student pilot is Barb You're out in New York, jared's down in Texas. I'm up in Seattle. I've been flying for over a decade, jared's somewhat new and Barb's the freshest. So let's start with you, barb. Tell us a little bit about how you found your way into aviation.
Speaker 3:So I mentioned this on, i think, the podcast a couple of weeks ago, so if anybody hasn't heard that, it's worth a listen. I'm super good. But no, seriously, i really it came out of nowhere. I'm the kind of person where ideas will pop into my head and I'll be like I'm going to go do this. And it was exactly like that with aviation. honestly, i started learning and reading about the Mercury 7 and the first test pilots back in the day of Chuck Yeager and first breaking the sound barrier and like the jet AV, like jet you know whatever, like the revolution essentially, and it was really really cool and reading about it and understanding like what role and pitch and y'all are. It's very different when you're physically in an airplane and when you're reading about it. And so I sort of put the books down and I was like I'm going to do this And I remember texting my husband and being like I'm going to go fly planes And he was like, like you want to be a pilot?
Speaker 3:And I said no, i just want to take like a lesson, i want to understand something. It's just, don't worry about it, it's just a one time thing, don't worry. And he was like, okay, and I called up a flight school nearby and I went for a discovery flight and I loved it. It was I mean, i'm sure that you guys can speak to this also like that feeling of first, like leaving the ground and watching the runway underneath you, that sight picture, staying on centerline, you know just like there's something amazing and ironically so grounding to it. Like I just felt like in order to be grounded, i needed to be in the sky And I it was amazing And I said I think I need to do this more.
Speaker 3:Like I distinctly remember not as much the flight but the feeling afterward, like I was so present and so clear minded and like all of a sudden, everything in my life was like organized, i was able to get things done. Like it was just, it just felt so right. So I continued taking lessons at that school And ultimately it's not the school I ended up at, but I mean I'm sure that we'll, we'll, we'll get to it. But that was definitely how I started and how I fell in love with it. So It's.
Speaker 2:Discovery flights are the best way, the highest recommendation I give to anyone that's looking to get into aviation even if they don't have the funds for the full ticket, at least go fly a discovery flight with whatever flight schools near you. So they're a variety of different types of schools. So, jared, how did you get into that?
Speaker 4:You know it's a. It's a good, it's a good question. I was actually having a really tough week and I took my son out to our local airport. We live really close to a local municipal airport and we're watching the approach of the air, the airplanes coming in, and it just happens One of the flight school owners drove over, opened his window and handed me a card and said you know, you can take a flight if you like. I said no, i don't think so. My vision isn't, isn't good enough to fly. So he said no, if you have correct vision, you can. So from there I said sign me up. I bought the full SIM, i had a full setup, i had 40 to 50 hours in an office before I took my discovery flight And after I took the actual flight, it was, it was incredible, i was, i was hooked. So here we are. Awesome, we're 200 hours down.
Speaker 3:What was it about that flight that you liked so much?
Speaker 4:Goodness, you know, i didn't. It wasn't clear to me that I was going to be on the controls And so, being that I was going to actually do some turns and some coordination and and actually be on the controls for landing pretty much through through the flare and he took over He it was. That was probably the most exciting aspect of it.
Speaker 2:Yeah, Isn't that, like Barb elaborated on the lack of detail in in what you were doing in the flight, but the motions that you left with that flight and the memories that you made from that, all those, all those details like just how, how vibrant that memory is.
Speaker 2:And there's certain milestones, as in your, your progression as a pilot, from that first discovery flight to soloing and getting your your private ticket and each rating beyond their all special moments in that discovery flight is something that is like the first time you've actually done that. So, whatever experience you've had prior with simulations or none at all, and how that meets your realities of you know where you're expecting things. And then the reality of this, the feeling of of the engine vibrating and on on rollout to take off, and the first time you pick up and the airplane gets light on the wheels, the smells, all the things you weren't accounting for. Isn't that just something that I remember the most about? was just like the smell of the oil inside the, the flight deck and all the things that just little micro details I wasn't expecting and.
Speaker 4:I guess yeah, yeah, 100 low lead, or sure.
Speaker 2:We've had this discussion. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And Barb, don't you have a candle? a hundred low lead candle?
Speaker 3:I do. I have a candle that smells like a hundred low lead It really smells like a hundred low lead where I'm shocked at the fact that, like I mean, it can't be right, guys, you can't make a candle out of gasoline, right?
Speaker 2:I think it's real. I could try Definitely. You know Dr Physics back at the Farrain podcast. So Scott, Scott, Boris in factory.
Speaker 3:It's very funny, But the truth is, i think it's, i think it's a smell that that for me brings back, like you said, that memory. I think scent has memory in it and you smell it And for me it brings me right back to preflight. You know, i shoved the candle in my husband's face and he was like it's like a urinal. But yeah, yeah, yeah, It's like it smells so good, i don't know what you're talking about.
Speaker 2:Yeah, wholesomely like. I thought that was a remarkable thing about like all these memories of the tactile feedback of the aircraft, but those smells and whatnot, how we can latch onto those for memories Like my. my late grandpa had a certain cologne and smelling that almost 20 years later. just happenstance, someone in the mall had it and just instantly felt like I was back with him in the nineties And so I have, I have a lot of that eclectic mix of smells from aviation and primarily, just like how Cessna smell, a little bit different than like a serious manure leather.
Speaker 2:All those things that weren't expecting the discovery flight but all of a sudden they're just wham, hitch you like a freight train. And those are the things I remember some of the most about, which I thought was really interesting compared to having spent hundreds and hundreds of hours on flight simulators years before and expecting, you know, just be staring at the instruments and reality is especially early on. They really want you looking outside and feeling the aircraft and experience The sight picture and all the things that are going on.
Speaker 2:And you know, depending on if you have the David Clark a shame's headsets, typically they're at the rental. Those were the best. The green ones, the very. Yes, the outer cup is just cold or something, just you know, compared to like a nice or a, nice or a nice or even the light speeds.
Speaker 2:You know the nice leather cup, that basically those David Clarks you know. You don't know what people are saying in general And then you also can't hear because the headset sucks and because the rental school, a rental headset, is just beat the heck. So yeah that fun moments of early learning until you invest in your own headset.
Speaker 3:Right. So those little things are what I was chasing when I, you know, I read about these initial test pilots and what their site picture is what they saw And I was like I need to under. Like it's one thing to read about it, right, It's one thing to watch it or whatever, but to actually live and experience, it was amazing. It was like being in school and going on a field trip. You know, it's real life learning, for me anyway.
Speaker 2:So, after your discovery flight, how'd you start to transition to becoming a student?
Speaker 3:So, like I said, when I do things, i do them 100%. I go all in. So I loved it. I got the experience and I was like I'm gonna, i'm gonna do this. And I bought the books, the bag, the headset, everything And I started flying like two to three times a week And I was reading the book And I was like you know, your, your CFI will tell you, oh, next time you come in, make sure you have chapter three read. Like I read chapter three and I wrote questions down in the back of the book And I texted him questions like throughout, and he was like you had like, and he just wouldn't answer. He was like this is you just asked me later, you know. So I did, i went, i went all in And and it was great And as I, i learned a little bit more about just aircrafts in general, what I was really looking for in a pre-flight And in general, like what I was looking for in a CFI, like I realized more and more that the school that I initially had started with wasn't the right thing for me.
Speaker 3:You know, like I said, he was like I'm sorry, i can't take your questions, you know, and I was like I'm going to need someone that can, like I really want to understand what's going on. I really want to be able to discuss with you. I want to, you know, i mean listen, it's not going to happen at hours of the night, but like, let's, let's just pick a time, let's discuss over the like, over the phone, let's whatever. Like, i'll like I'll pay you. Well, it'll be a session or whatever. It is Like I needed to really understand and talk to someone and, you know, not everybody's learning styles match, so that, plus the maintenance, i was like I think I need to move somewhere else.
Speaker 3:And that was when I began exploring a bunch of different schools. You know, everybody has their own methodology and their own way of doing things, and the second school I tried wasn't the right one for me either, by the way, they did everything by a, the sporty curriculum, i think, and it was very. It was scripted almost like each lesson they would like check off exactly what benchmarks we had met And you know, we would go back to lessons and this and that, and I wanted to enjoy it. I wanted to move, i guess, at my own pace. I didn't want to have to keep up with lessons. I didn't want two ground sessions for everyone in the sky, like I read the book.
Speaker 3:I read the book, i discussed the book, like I was a lot more involved in the knowledge of it than other people. You know, i got my AGI, my advanced ground instructor certificate, so now I have all the knowledge. I passed the test. I passed the test to teach the stuff and they were still like I'm sorry, but you always ground sessions And I was like I don't, like this is not, this is not the right thing, and so I moved to another school. You know, i think it as you go through your journey and you get more knowledge, different places may not be correct.
Speaker 2:Yeah that's really interesting about the AGI. I was going to ask you about how your curriculum worked out with ground school In particular. A lot of people often try to knock out ground schools, like your whole module, before some try to integrate it as they go, And it sounds like not only did you integrate it as you go through three different flight schools, but you also got your AGI and became a ground instructor And in some arguments you could teach some of those CFIs about some of those ground related maneuvers and lessons. So that's really awesome. You have that follow through and drive to commit to the all the curriculum. So was that even offered to you in any sense for between any of those three schools like a formal ground school? because a lot of things are online now, I'm curious if that was something that you had to chase down on your own or was difficult to find.
Speaker 3:So the last of the flight schools, the one that I ultimately ended up with, has free ground school, i think once every two weeks, once every month, something like that. But I mean I never went because by the time I got there I already had my AGI. My first, the first flight school I was at was just like read the book. And then the second flight school I was at was Sporties and the CFIs were required to sit with me in a classroom and I remember my CFI drawing systems on the board. He fully drew a diagram of the engines. Like never at any point was it like oh go, do King schools or whatever. It was never like that. It was. I mean, each one had their own style, had their own flair. But I mean I did go and get my AGI. I feel like it's worthwhile to say because maybe people could relate to this.
Speaker 3:I'm sure is I had to stop my training in the middle. I mean flying is not something that's feasible to do in one straight shot, whether it's expenses or timing or life that gets in the way. Like I had to stop flying And I said I don't wanna totally give it up. So what else can I do? And studying on my own time and I had to learn the material anyway. you know And I have a teaching degree already I didn't have to take the FOI, the Fundamentals of Instruction. Usually it's two tests It's an AGI and an FOI. So I didn't have to take the Fundamentals of Instruction test. it was just an AGI test. So I was able to stay in it and stay involved and stay around aviation and around the flight school And I even talked ground for a little bit. I was able to stay in and around and be relevant even though I wasn't necessarily flying. So I think that's important too, because you know, use it or lose it.
Speaker 2:Yeah for sure. Being part of the community, I think, is really important, And then being involved in it even teaching as a student is an excellent way to remain present. Just being around the FBO or the school or whatnot, that's awesome. So how did your ground school training go, Jared?
Speaker 3:You were gonna say something.
Speaker 4:Well, i can kind of relate to that. Some of the ground schools. the first flight school that I went to, it was almost required that you went to their particular ground school, and I mentioned that I was enrolled in three different ground schools the Sporties, the Kings and the Gleam-Glyme, however you pronounce it.
Speaker 3:Gleam-Glyme.
Speaker 4:Gleam-Glyme exactly, And they kind of basically said if you're not enrolled in ours, we don't care, And so that was one of the reasons for transitioning to a different school. So I had a similar experience and I moved schools and it was very helpful And I moved to the next school that I was currently earned my certificates at and they offered me every resource available And it made it incredibly, incredibly comfortable for earning both the private and the instrument and working on commercial.
Speaker 4:Now I have my commercial rating on the 30th and see a file on the 31st of July, so we're getting there, but it's really important to be there for your students and what you offer as a school, and that's something that I answer a lot of calls for. The flight school that we partner with, and that's the number one question is what do you recommend? How do you do this? How do you proceed with your training? And we recommend sporties. We recommend anything that is best for the student, so it was very beneficial. All those different types of learning.
Speaker 3:Confirming these are all part 61s right.
Speaker 4:Correct.
Speaker 3:Right. I think that's important to say too, because there's the 141 option that none of us have gone through right?
Speaker 4:Yes, I have not.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I was curious if Jared was gonna go through a 141 with some of the curriculum laid out in terms of sticking to certain modules, but then yeah, so that important distinction for new students coming in. There's two different types of schools, more or less a less formal approach. There's a part 61 where you kind of go through and do what you need to do to get the certificate complete, and there's more formal training. It typically is meant and reserved for future airline pilots, called 141. And they're trying to get you through certain stages And there's certain elements and benefits by going through that 141 style school.
Speaker 2:That gets you more opportunities down the stream where you can get certain ratings and certificates sooner And unfortunately they're a bit more strict with how they formalize their lesson plans and things around that. But if you have a family and a bit more informally I think all of us have children at the point when we're training, either our initial certificates or through additional added certificates, it's something like the family time and other work constraints to pay for this whole certificate. That makes part 61 a bit more manageable, whereas 141, if you're a younger kid that is funded in such a way that you can get out there and go from A to Z and knock out a rating like there's certain schools, like ATP, that are well known for really setting you up to become an airline pilot and a CFI, if anything, in a couple months.
Speaker 3:So there are previous episodes of this podcast. They say it's like drinking water from a fire hose.
Speaker 2:Water from a fire hose is exactly that. So you have to be set up as a student in that mindset where you're there to learn and take it in and work hard at it. I don't think you can afford as many distractions as you can with a part 61, but especially having full-time career and or family. I found it really important for me early on when I started. I started ground school in person. I wanted to hear what people had to say and the questions that came to mind from others things I wasn't thinking about. So I went through kind of a semi-formal ground school locally and it was twice a week, a couple hours a day, a night early, and so that was brought. Three months of training over the course of time And we eventually got to the point where we're doing the mock written test And that really prepared me in that case for the real thing later, when I went through and started to apply those theories into practice with some of those, like I said, ground-based maneuvers So looking at flying from these books but then starting to put them into practice when we're out there And oh, this is what we were talking about Some of those fundamentals of aerodynamics, all these aeronautical decision-making, all these things you read about and starting to realize, like how important fuel management and planning, specifically when you're on your 10 hours of solo flights private pilot student And when you're doing your first long solo cross country as the first time you'll remember your first solo Like vividly, but that's the long solo cross country.
Speaker 2:When you now have to go do this and you're by yourself Going hundreds of miles away, that that's. It's not necessarily a scary moment. It's very sobering in the way that, yeah, i need to monitor the fuel and I need all these things that I was taught.
Speaker 4:Now It's time to put into practice And and a product that maybe that may be a little bit different in your area, because I just went to Abilene. You have I 30 West, yeah, and yeah, it's no problem.
Speaker 2:Yeah, so in my area up in the Seattle area, we have terrain, we have water, we have certain. I think it's easier to to navigate because there are some very iconic landmarks from that and it's easy to keep north, south, really easy. But there's definitely distance and stretches of time where you're out there on your own and It's definitely one of those moments. I think that Finding the right instructor that's competent and you're comfortable with early on so that you're Feeling fully prepared in those moments as you're moving through all the different stages and Milestones as a new student into a soon to be private pilot applicant, i the device I was given and I kind of understood as I've gone through all of my ratings as I progress. More life experience is to treat some of these Instructors kind of like a job interview so that you know, do you have a good mesh fit and you don't have to necessarily take that instructor that was given to you Initially and just kind of, you know, go meet up with them informally before any of the lessons begin and just have conversation and kind of explain your, your current scenario and What your goals are and do you want to be an airline pilot Or just here for fun because you, you know, saw some really cool clips on Instagram. Also, i think important to know if your instructor wants to be an airline pilot, so they're not going through their students really quickly and pushing through Into their at their advancement in their career, where they leave you behind. I've had that happen twice where I've had instructor leave early and It was kind of a bummer because I agreed with their teaching style. We had a certain vibe that was fun and it was fun to be learning and engaging with. All these Kind of comical moments were just your shoulder, shoulder or someone for at least 40 hours. You better have a good rapport with them and so having that Disappointment of having to find someone new Every time that would happen was always a bit of a challenge and I feel like I lucked out with people I end up flying with over course of time all across different categories and classes.
Speaker 2:But Often some people may be assigned to an instructor and you just don't mesh well at all. So don't accept that instructor right away because They were assigned to you by someone in administration at the flight school. But go have a conversation with them, have coffee or whatever your persuasion, and just talk about your mutual goals. I think it was really important. Every time I've met a new instructor is just kind of feel that vibe and luckily, like I said, i've I've come across. Majority of the people I've flown with have been awesome, but there have been a few outliers that just You know. I was happy to not have to fly with them again.
Speaker 2:So and then being realistic about that, but not accepting same personality difference Because you know you might not mesh well with them who knows how people perceive you? And especially when you're a new student and you're nervous and you're unfamiliar with how these g forces, the sights and the smells, all the, all these things are becoming normalized and you have a cadence of figuring out what This is like, you know, and then you factor in weather and turbulence and how. How are you with doing stalls? And then it's a little bit gusty out there because I know a instructor and locally that is not a fan of stalls at all. That's a pretty important part of the initial student pilot training or trying to get stall awareness things regarding you know the tactile feel. All these chain, the chain of events that lead up to A stall and hopefully not a spin trying to identify that stall lesson.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah. So yeah, there's everyone. I think everyone has their, their, their stall that they'll remember forever. They just let it go too far, or Um, you know, the weather was just miserable.
Speaker 3:Jared's like no.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 2:So you want to make sure that you know, as an instructor, you're not leaving students terrified, but as a student, that you feel like you have someone on your side that will help guide you to those solutions that don't involve Hitting anything.
Speaker 2:So, because you're going to be in certain scenarios where you you are beyond the threshold of your understanding of what's happening and they're They're going to have the controls taken back from the instructor to the instructor, from you and being confident in in that person to be able to save the ship. And And let's start this over, i think is a good that rapport that you're looking for for the student and the instructor and so early on, um, just to kind of identify that you Are good to go with this person or like, yeah, let's you know, basically, have no shame in trying to find someone else that maybe is a better fit for you. It could be an age related thing. You're just not vibing on that or other factors where they are on a mission to just knock out these ratings and then not necessarily custom tailoring their lessons to what you need, especially in part 61.
Speaker 3:As a female pilot. This is a thing like you're gonna be shoulder to shoulder with an instructor. I mean, it's not a secret that the majority of aviators are men, right?
Speaker 3:It's a weird thing like I. It took me a while to figure out that I, um, like I, i preferred like a kid. I wanted, like a 21 year old kid that. You know it was very like. He was fresh out of his 141 and You know, i looked at him as like because I mean, i'm in my 30s. I looked at him as a child, he looked me as an old lady and it was the exact, perfect match for me. You know, like I think Obviously, like being a female is a big, a big thing too, and it also depends on what, what you're in it for and what you're looking for.
Speaker 3:Like, some people are in it to get their private pilot's license, some people want to go and get their instruments and people want to be professional pilots. Some people are just flying out of you know, as a hobby, they're taking lessons just for fun. So maybe you don't want an instructor, that's as serious. You want somebody that's more like a friend, somebody who you can really joke around with And hang out with, and you know, obviously you're paying them, but it's it's for the fun of it. Like you know somebody, let's say, can't get a medical and is like I'm just gonna have her fun, right and then. So it really all depends on on where you're at and what you are personally comfortable with.
Speaker 3:And You know, like the second school that I went to, the one that used the sport is curriculum, was very, very serious. And I was like, guys, i'm in it right now as a hobby, i'm not really looking to to get a license at the at the moment. And they were like that's weird, let me go ask the chief pilot if we can see you. And I was like okay, you know, like I thought you would just take my like, take my money and be okay with it. And they were like no, we run a very serious program here, man, you know, and uh, it just it wasn't, it wasn't the right, the right fit for me. So, um, i think it really depends on where you are in your flying career, what your intentions are and You know who you are.
Speaker 4:Like I said, being a female aviator is is a thing you know regionally, i I wonder, if I don't know how it is differently for uh per new york or texas or seattle, but if it differs regionally. That initial contact call, oh, what, what is your end goal here? Are you looking to get a private? Are you looking to get a commercial? Are you looking to be airline or atp? um, what, what is your background? and I feel like a lot of that can play into that. I that training, that initial setup, that initial contact, and I've taken a lot of those calls and And it's been eye-opening, it really has of. Well, i've, i'm a flight attendant and I'm looking My, my buddy said I need to get training for to be a pilot. Why not? You know some so-and-so works for american airlines or southwest and This is a great time to be a pilot. Okay, well, this is uh The information needed. Is is really important to Uh how the training progresses and that that initial uh Aspect of what you're wanting to do.
Speaker 3:Yeah, you guys want a funny story. When I was a ground instructor, um, i had to have the same conversations with people, right, like what is, what's your Goals, what's the end game? and, um, i had a student who said, um, i want to Take a plane And I want to triangulate the earth in a single Yep Mm-hmm, in a, in a single prop Engine, whatever I want to be able to prove that the earth Is flat. And I was like, um, i'm not sure that I can Help you with that, but I can help you get past your written. I was like, i guess, i guess, if this is how this is is gonna go. I was like, what he's? like, i'm still in my Sh what do you call it? a vehicle selection phase. And, um, considering an airplane, i, i may, i may end up on a boat or I may end up in a vehicle that's not Created yet. Um, i said, okay, well, um, like I didn't know what to do with that.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it is like a giant real life theme.
Speaker 3:It was. So I was like um, okay, i guess we'll start with navigation. Then I like, i don't know.
Speaker 2:I heard some advice about people that don't believe in the moon landing. And uh, you believe in the moon landing. You believe in the moon In the moon well, what's wrong with you?
Speaker 4:Well, you know, kind of going back to, uh, the topic of flights, uh, your initial flight school, um, one of the first things that when you get into aviation and you and you start flying and and you make the decision to do Flight training, right, i had an initial interview and the first thing it was told to me was aviation is not a poor man's game, and I Didn't know how to take that. I didn't know if that was a sizing me up kind of thing, if that was a Quantifying the buyer aspect. And you know, we have such a demographic now, from young individuals to older individuals. Shout out to Joseph Croft on PG, making a transition, wants to fly King airs. You know that's a, that's a, that's a great Change. He, he doesn't want to go commercial or he doesn't want to go to the airlines or 121. It's for everybody and it's it's welcoming.
Speaker 3:Yeah.
Speaker 4:It's. It's a challenging thing to Introduce something like that to a buyer. I Don't.
Speaker 2:Yeah, that is unfortunately an honest self evaluation, like you can kind of expand this over time. But can I afford this? fundamentally, i think there's different aspects about how you can make that happen and that's a lot of personal choices and impacts in terms of You know, your, your life scenario, especially if you have a family. I would argue that most people would prioritize their family over flying, but there's definitely opportunities when you don't have a family to spend more money and time with your flying as a solo aspect, solo effort really, and That devotion. I saw especially a younger friend of mine who was in his younger 20s doing the ATP 141. That was his entire life and they're all ours practically, you know, and the course, short course of time, within six months, i just remember. Also Very not long after his graduation from that whole program He was in jets for real and so it's amazing if you don't have some of those obligations of some of the rest of us have with being a Family person.
Speaker 2:I I happened to come across like a scenario before I had kids that I was flying a lot and Suddenly found out that we're gonna have twin daughters born and that honestly put the brakes On for five solid years of all of my hobbies until I've got that sorted out and then hit it again really hard And within the matter of a few years After that I was having flown more than ever and knocked out several ratings, including a helicopter, which is great.
Speaker 2:So the girls kind of grew up, the young girls grew up with helicopters in their lives for Stended amount of time or they didn't know any different. It was kind of funny having that change in my lifestyle from being Effectively like a bachelor mode into being a parent and then being this Student pilot all the way through to multiple categories and classes, and that was really a fixture of my life at that point was continuing to be High priority with my children and being an excellent parent, but like being really into aviation. When things started to get more, some certain life changes happened for me in terms of my career when I made a bit more easy to continue to fly more on a regular basis. And so you know, still have to have that cadence and find that that amount They're willing to Sacrifice from one or another out of these different buckets you have.
Speaker 2:But I know that's a good point being present for your family and throughout the whole Portion of any of this is definitely really important to me. But some some have better opportunities to find that priority in in timing than others and, yeah, i felt pretty lucky that it's worked out for me thus far And the girls have grown up in a unique kind of aviation environment but I'm still around with them and I've, through their entire elementary school career I got to go on every single fill trip and every every event that was even possible to go on and so, in other words, you start to feel like you're spreading yourself out quite a bit, because in the involvement in training and aviation requires a lot of mental fortitude and in practice and Talking, just being around the community. You can't just arrive and drive. You really have to be a part of something. So showing up to the, the flight school after hours and just flying other people being part of that whole Environment and saturating some of their knowledge and some of their, so like the hangar talk, all the things that aren't involved with you flying physically But just being there mentally is really important aspect of, i think, succeeding.
Speaker 2:And in the wholesome, lee, and that's kind of where I found this podcast, for example, i wanted some stupid, dry content and then found this hilarious set of characters in the yard.
Speaker 3:Yeah, so in between, why else would you look for far aim?
Speaker 2:It's insane. So like trying to, they'll flood, fill those gaps between, like driving from home to the flight school or commuting to work and then just listening, being part of Something. Even if you never meet us in person, you'll hear some of our stories and Rob Lee and Scott, all these things. It just you start to balance your own application of of time from what, what people have done and Learned from and remain mistakes from, and start to figure out where you are with these, yeah, opportunities. So everyone has a different path and journey that they can follow and and and. None Are the correct ones, but the ones have worked out well for others. In other words, go explore, have fun should be fun. If you're not having fun, maybe talk to some other instructors. Yeah, and it is expensive, but there's certain ways to. You know you the light sport and there's a sport pilot. There's other ways to kind of get involved in aviation, but not fully commit, but I was thinking about that recently.
Speaker 4:Yeah, and so it is. It isn't as it isn't. You know, if you think about there's so many programs out there, they can get kids introduced. I mean, around here in the DFW area There are so many programs that are aviation centric and We are really grateful for them, and it's a focus on the trades as well. As you know, higher education and so Aviation is, is kind of the forerunner here in our area. Personally, i'm sure it is in y'all's area because it is so prevalent, but There are aspects to get into it easily, affordably, and I just We just want that to be known.
Speaker 3:One of my flight schools one of them, one of the three is on Groupon and you can buy like three hours for like so much cheaper. It's worth looking at for sure.
Speaker 2:Yeah. So you it's like elaborate rules, you stack on the group on the, do your entire flight training through Groupon and That's actually how I got into helicopters. I have a bunch of friends that are rotorcraft pilots and it was always something I wanted to do and something I had in my mind and there was a group on for I think it's just a half hour intro flight And Robinson, and then that's how I got my start and then before I knew it I was flying primarily helicopters for a couple of years doing ridiculous things with these things. You know That I never thought as a fixed-wing pilot I ever been involved with and out picking up cones and fields and knocking them over for fun and, you know, landing in the woods and Trading altitude for airspeed off of cliffs, kind of like a roller coaster, and calm down, it's a sinking rock.
Speaker 2:We're hovering like at the Cliff and just like push that nose for it again in Robinson.
Speaker 3:It's shaped like a rock with a stick attached.
Speaker 4:No, I'm with you. I'm with you, barb. It's a way.
Speaker 2:And I had that even a. Thing that mindset you'd done in the past. I'm like I'm not doing that and I did my intro flight and changed my life.
Speaker 4:Did you get your face swing before your rotorcraft?
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, yeah, okay, fun fact actually I was born in 1993.
Speaker 3:I.
Speaker 2:Went to Yeah.
Speaker 3:Why? what's the?
Speaker 2:pilot Ground school in 1995. So I was in fifth grade and my parents bought me the full Ground school experience. So when I was, like I think, 10 years old, so I was in there, the bunch of 40 year olds and I, you know I didn't do as well in terms of like the mock test, but that's how committed I have been to aviation back. I started flight school back in the 90s and I was born in the 80s.
Speaker 3:Wow.
Speaker 2:I, you know, took some time, having gone through middle school, high school, finding a career that could support some of this and then, back in the late 2000s, actually started my own as a real deal effort as an adult before kids. And then I started, yeah, fixed wing right here out of just a really small, not really small airport but a un-controlled field, and Eventually finished basically my first private pilot certificate at a class Delta next to basically the Boeing factory. So we've had these heavies, twin-owl heavies, mixed it up in this 72, yeah, and the best part is like when you're short final somewhere and there's a 747 waiting for you. So gosh, opportunities like that. And Yeah, so mixed Friday. And then same thing with the helicopter training, same Painfield Airport, flying again from the ramp directly because taxiways are for for losers.
Speaker 3:So to rock on a step. I.
Speaker 4:Love the hate. You know, one of my best memories was getting my private license, was coming into a control field and North Fort Worth and It has a joining runways, parallel runways, and the the left runway had. I have 10 miles to go and There's an FA 18 coming in and he parallels me and getting to land with a Navy aircraft because the there's a joint base, a joint reserve base, just nearby. Getting the land side by side with that was Such a memorable experience and it's just those, those memories that you get through your training.
Speaker 3:I hope everybody gets them If you ever wanted to fly with F-18s, you should just squawk 7500, call it a day or not 75. What is it? 77? No, it's 75, 75.
Speaker 4:Yeah, yeah, you know, I mean, July 4th is coming up, so Yeah, it's amazing. It's America, america, every fireworks. So that's right, that's right.
Speaker 3:I love that. You know, there was just and I guess it wasn't even an incident, it was an accident we could discuss. That happened with the was it F-16s that were flying alongside Yeah, Washington DC. Yeah, the citation, i believe I epoxy it. Yeah, yeah, that's a bad deal. That's terrifying. It's not even the first time something like that happened, you know.
Speaker 4:No, the supersonic boom was heard over multiple states, including ours. Wow, There were noise complaints of why there was a supersonic boom and was it a problem. So that was the reason. From that specific incident.
Speaker 3:You heard the sonic boom over Texas.
Speaker 4:Personally I did not hear it, but the multiple reports did.
Speaker 3:Wow, that's incredible.
Speaker 2:Rumor is it was just Taco Bell.
Speaker 1:Yes.
Speaker 2:Yes.
Speaker 1:Yes, By the way.
Speaker 4:Taco Bell has a breakfast taco sponsored by. Just kidding.
Speaker 3:Imagine That's funny.
Speaker 2:Yeah, but why Right?
Speaker 3:No, that is a very memorable experience. I mean to be up there like that with fighter jets. That's not even that's crazy.
Speaker 2:Yeah, isn't that cool landing in parallel runways If you're a poor support set. I've had so many memories of flying alongside with the 777 and their massive birds And there's a moment where you're kind of flying alongside each other, even though you're going at different air speeds. There's just that moment where you're kind of almost holding hands and you're like, yeah, we're doing it like well, wolf pack.
Speaker 3:We're the same.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, same thing, and the reality is that those guys started in Cessna's 2 conceivably and or piper.
Speaker 3:Absolutely. Even those fighter jet pilots started out in little hot plants.
Speaker 2:Something piston related probably, but that's the funny thing about the helicopter world is that there are many rich kids that jumped right and deterred in helicopters and skipped all the Robinson's And so and, or they went into the military And so they don't have some of the struggles of the poor kids like me and the Robinson's. I enjoy the Robinson's but they get so much flak from the rich kids that started in like Bells or even like Blackhawks. So yeah, it's funny All the different perspectives. Like I know someone that started flying initially in Cirrus aircraft and it's very nice airplane. I have a few hours in them and really would enjoy to own one, fundamentally as an owner downstream, but I don't know the certain things.
Speaker 2:That almost feels like you should pay your dues and some crappy airplane and work your way up. But why not have like this really sweet airplane to learn to fly in? But then there's argument like the Cubs or the Champs no electrical, no flaps, all that, the hand prop. Where do you start? Like what's reasonable to go through that suffrage on, because everything's for flight and all this glass panel stuff and navigating all the information before your fingertips doesn't suck Like why should you go through? Why do we still have E6Bs. I know there's still fundamental learnings from that that we need to teach new students. But finding that balance of back to the flight school aspect of that flight planning with paper charts, e6bs like how deep into it do you want to go with that and your instructor?
Speaker 3:And then I know that I have to tell you Now go ahead, you continue.
Speaker 2:Because I heard that they're allowing more for-flight now, because this before I was flying in private pilot for-flight wasn't a thing And so I had to do those paper charts, those E6Bs. And then my neighbor is learning as a student and has for-flight And I would just stick to the charts for now. So at least not that realistically when the iPad failed probably not, but it could. But just having a better understanding of where those for-flight and all the other apps are coming from, i think it's great, but not just to make this whole experience suck. But are we going to move to that point where everything is electronic and we don't have those paper charts anymore?
Speaker 3:So, yeah, i think that I can speak to this even as a teacher. As an educator, my background is in education. I mean, i taught third and fourth grade for 10 years. You learn a lot of the fundamentals in those years, right, you learn what multiplication is, you learn how to add and regroup or whatever it is. And it's like the same argument could be made. It's like, well, how come you don't just start with a calculator?
Speaker 3:The whole idea is that you understand fundamentally, just like you said Tyler, you understand fundamentally what's going on and what conceptually is happening. What am I really doing here? If I take 52 and add 47 or whatever, and you actually take 52 little chips and 47 little chips and you add them together and you physically really manipulated and understand that you have a better conceptual idea of what is going on. And as opposed to if you just plugged it into a calculator and you learned just how to plug it into a calculator. So I think that's the idea behind using the paper charts and behind using the E6B.
Speaker 3:The E6B is a take on the original slide rule. I mean they sent men to the moon using a slide rule. It wasn't a calculator. So I think the idea behind using those. Like I said, the low tech is really not. I mean, yes, you could use it in case of an emergency, if everything fails, but you really should have a solid foundation and a conceptual understanding of what you're doing. If you're going to be in such a high stakes world like the sky, you should really know what's up.
Speaker 2:Yeah, on the fly, making adjustments in those scenarios where something is off script and typically we're out flying around and you start engaging in the air traffic control, there's typically the script that you kind of expect and things are going through the motions. And when that script changes, how are you going to adapt? And that's where I think I find a flight instructor that is going to throw you some scenarios they weren't prepared for early on midterm and then later into your flying. Training for private in particular, is going to really set you up to be thinking more critically about all the aspects of flight, in terms of the pre-flight all the way to the end and then debriefing. So having that fundamental knowledge of math helps. But why? I like to ask a lot of why? questions Like why are we concerned about this? And a lot of these regulations we have, for part 91 particular, are written in blood because someone did something stupid and then died because of it And so let's fix that problem.
Speaker 3:We are the Farium Podcast. Yeah, we mentioned it once in episode.
Speaker 2:So I recommend anyone getting into this to definitely ask why, rather than just accepting these as facts, and not to challenge or question the system, but just to understand more in depth why. That is a concern Like why do we ground the airplane before we fuel it And then do you ground a Cirrus? that's a composite aircraft. So some of those you get deeper dives into that in terms of all the different considerations for retractable landing gear versus fixed landing gear and some of the things you're looking at as you start to expand your aviation career from this trainer Cessna all the way up through a jet. There's a lot of applications of some of that similar logic. But understanding that why will then kind of change contextually depending on the type of airframe, category of class you're flying.
Speaker 2:And I did an episode almost a year ago or about a year ago on sea planes and some of that involvement in water totally changed, reframed all the things I considered pre-flighting just ground-based aircraft suddenly have water to deal with, and how and why. Why is this important? Why are there springs on this water rudder? In case something gets jammed you can help free it, and things you didn't necessarily consider. Because you're going to go through the different scenarios each flight you fly, but eventually you kind of evolve and go through different flight schools, different instructors, different types of aircraft. You'll go from the Cessnas to the Pipers to the Cirrus And hopefully everyone experienced a jet or a helicopter But those things that are different suddenly is a learning moment And then I feel just very strongly that a good instructor early on will have you asking those questions and exploring and not just accepting what you have in front of you is what it is.
Speaker 2:So I think the acquisitive pilots are great pilots that learn and adapt from that and continue. So what are your goals for flying now, barb? you've been around a bit. Continue just building hours and enjoying that. Or what's up for 2023?
Speaker 3:It's well, 2023 is almost half over, which is crazy town Right.
Speaker 3:But you know what's amazing. So I mean I really do fly out of a hobby. It's not a job, It's not a career for me. I do it because I enjoy it And I'm not necessarily pursuing anything serious.
Speaker 3:But what's been nice is access to new people and a supportive aviation community, Because initially it was just me and a CFI And I have to find somebody. That's sort of like I said, agreed with the idea that I wasn't maybe going to take my, going to do a check ride or whatever it was Like. I needed someone who was willing to just fly with me. And now that I have access to a wider aviation community, I mean I'm flying with friends. I'm flying with different people. I'm meeting all kinds of people from this flight school, from that flight school, People who are totally different ages than I am. I mean it's been amazing. So just having the opportunity to fly with people I consider friends is a totally different experience, And so that's really where I am And I'm enjoying every second of it. Again, there's nothing better than leaving the grounds. It makes me feel so grounded, So it's awesome.
Speaker 2:That's awesome. I love seeing the evolution of people getting involved. So, jared, when we met, it was at Precash in Ohio in July, so it's almost a year anniversary between us, so almost So. Basically, you had just gotten your private pilot and you flew all the way from Texas up to Ohio And I remember this Famously with the rudder trim out of trim.
Speaker 2:So since then, More left rudder. Since then. You were a pretty new private pilot at the time And you've pushed through multiple ratings since then. In less than a year It sounds like you're involved in a flight school and you're in the community. You're kind of getting out there with other people flying often And I see you with a lot of updates on Facebook and all other social media. How's that going?
Speaker 4:You know it's really going well Since being at Precash and the entire experience there was just incredible. I wish it was every year. Come on, Rob, Come on Rob. I'm just saying No flying. We actually decided to partner up and purchase a bunch of airplanes and lease them to a flight school And so they're in training. So learning so much about the flight training model, as well as the ownership model and the maintenance and having just a really above bar maintenance, it's challenging, It really is.
Speaker 3:It's a big deal, though. I left a flight school because of maintenance.
Speaker 4:That is one reason why so many people come to us. That's one reason why I left one of the flight schools that I originally trained for. But it's just the journey, the grind and talking with everybody that you do coming into a flight school. it makes it really worthwhile where they're coming from, why they're doing what they're doing, why they chose aviation. and then being there for that first solo, being there for that check ride, that congratulatory. on Friday we just congratulated a partner for his CFI initial. It's just seeing that absolute, just exhaustion from a 10-hour check ride and knowing it's just pure joy on his face and seeing how much he's worked for it in the process of going through it Every single bit, from private to CFI, to CFI, cfi it's amazing, it really is. I wish everybody could see the back-end side of it. I can't emphasize it enough. I really can't.
Speaker 2:Isn't that crazy journey, like I said, from about a year ago where you were to where you are now, and then all the prospects you have ahead of you, especially as an aircraft owner. You start to see those aircraft that you have part ownership in helping and create those memories and it starts to build that community. Being part of that community, you're involved in it more often and it's this reciprocal thing that I feel like. Ever since I got my certificates in different categories and classes, i've spent more time in those just as a participant in some flying event. Rather than paying per hour to go experience it, you just get invited into the club and then you are then in that scenario where I was in this Airbus helicopters, like a six-seater helicopters, awesome just flying around that we do like a 20-minute thing. It was like eight hours of flying and it cost me $0.00.
Speaker 3:Awesome, i ended up in an F-35 sim.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, so you have We need to talk about that.
Speaker 2:Yeah, so you have these different things, that when you start getting involved in aviation they start to come out of the wallpaper essentially, and it costs you nothing versus that initial investment seems like so much like I can't afford this. You get in that community and all of a sudden these opportunities jump out at you and you can get more flying time, just as a passenger. At least You see some of these different scenarios, all these different types of airplanes and simulators Then. So Barb recently engaged with, there's a really cool F-35 sim out in the New York City area. Let's talk about that, yeah.
Speaker 1:Hey everybody. Robert here without access to a proper microphone, so I give a huge thank you to Barb, tyler and Jared for helping us out here while Scott Lee and I are out. I'm going to divide this up into two different shows, because we have an hour right here and there's almost another hour that can be a standalone episode about simulators. So that's what I'm going to do. We cut it off here and we are going to continue this in episode 136. So stay tuned. Thank you for listening. Thank you again, tyler, jared and Barb for doing this.
Speaker 2:Just kind of get a feel for it. So this is it. Hi, rob, it's 512 or 812 your time, so set a timer for about an hour and then see what's going on. So how was everyone's Sunday?
Speaker 3:Jared, you can go first. I heard it was really warm where you were.
Speaker 4:Well, it was very warm. I am a bit of a red lobster, so do you have a pool, or a pool near you, pool near us? My in-laws live in our same neighborhood and so we are grateful for that.
Speaker 2:Awesome.
Speaker 3:I hear that.
Speaker 2:How's the smoke?
Speaker 3:in New York. It's not as bad anymore. It really smelled awful and it was bright orange.
Speaker 2:The other day, Like burnt maple syrup.
Speaker 3:Oh my gosh crazy. It was like but it wasn't 9-11 vibes. It smelled like a fireplace So I didn't mind it as much, but we were outside today, so hopefully the air is okay. Do you have a garage?
Speaker 2:that you leave your cars in or out of, because we had those Canadian wildfires a couple years ago and all the ash left on the cars was kind of acidic to the paint and so we're really concerned about all that.
Speaker 3:Wow, we do have a garage, but my husband keeps his car in there because it's a Tesla and he needs to charge it, so he gets the garage.
Speaker 2:Yeah, i know, be careful, because you get that ash wet and it can create some other problems for the paint too and kind of eats away the clear coat and all that. So be very careful because it's very sharp So welcome to Car Facts, yeah.
Speaker 2:It's a concern Like we have half the cars in garages and the other ones outside and then those poor bastards you know have to deal with the ash and whatnot from the Canadian wildfire. So we occasionally have wildfires here in our area. In fact last time Jared was in my area he had to deal with that flying around in. that was very nasty, horrible.
Speaker 3:Do you wear a mask when it happens?
Speaker 2:You know, the first time it really really happened was in the 2020 era. So, kind of by default, this whole area was wearing that in general, but then augmented with the actual risk of inhalation of like actual ash particles. It was just like a war zone out here, so it was pretty gnarly. Ultimately, you know, the advice is just to stay inside, best you do. There's only so much filtration your filter will do from the furnace, so you have to be on top of that, and it was gross, after just like a week changing out the furnace filter, knowing that that was still like going through our house. And, yeah, unfortunately, this part of the world, it seems like it's going to be an annual event. It's unusual that the East Coast gets it this early and, if at all, so, yeah, we're pretty much due for our own wildfires here soon in the Seattle area, and it extends all the way down to Oregon. And what now?
Speaker 3:So there were tons of New Yorkers in masks, like given New Yorker a reason to wear one, and they're like yeah.
Speaker 2:Yeah, i saw the.
Speaker 2:Instagram story, the. It's probably similar in the Seattle area that definitely the portion of Seattle area I live in is more rural and people are definitely over it. So, yeah, so, reminding Barb to Jared, make sure you put your phone away from your table or anything that vibrates, so that if you get a text in between any of this it doesn't get into the recording. I did that during my seaplane episode and I heard it and I was. I couldn't do anything about it. I thought it was far away, so I put it on like a pillow over there.
Speaker 4:So it's out of the way It's on the carpet next to me. Listen, I can't guarantee that there is not a one year old baby girl.
Speaker 2:Oh yeah.
Speaker 4:We are possibly screaming outside, yeah.
Speaker 2:So if you can't hear that right now, we heard it earlier when you had different audio source. I think that Mike does a pretty good job of getting that dialed out, so it's good. I'm grateful Otherwise we're, you know, a team 135. So our lack of precision is desirable.
Speaker 2:So I I'll just start doing an opening and I presume that Rob will do some kind of audio intro as well, and we'll go from there. I'll just open it up and then you guys can introduce yourselves by name and then we'll go from there. So, all right, here we go. Sounds great, are you ready?
Speaker 3:Ready, all right.
Speaker 2:Cool Ready. Welcome to the Far Aim podcast. I'm Tyler Brunkhorst Farborsatn. Let's do it again, all right, all right.