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A Drinking Podcast; That Sometimes Talks About Airplanes And Learning To Fly. A Private Pilot, A Commercial Pilot And An Airline Transport Pilot (ATP) As Hosts. They Got Board With The FAR AIM Book Years Ago But Are To Lazy To Change The Podcast Name (or do any show prep whatsoever for that matter). Welcome To The Oddest, Most Irreverent And Controversial Pilot Podcast In America.
FAR AIM | Aviation Reg's | Aeronautical Info | FARAIM
#136 | Unraveling the Benefits of F-35 Simulators and Virtual Reality in Pilot Education
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Imagine soaring through the sky in an F-35 fighter jet, feeling the adrenaline rush as you navigate the airspace in a state-of-the-art flight simulator. Join us as we recount our unforgettable experience at the F-35 Sim, run by Israeli Air Force vets in New York City, and learn how this amazing feat of technology can help pilots improve their skills and decision-making abilities.
We'll also discuss the benefits of virtual reality headsets for aviation training, exploring cost-saving opportunities and the various flight simulators like Redbird and Advanced Training Devices. From transitioning between simulation and actual aircraft to the nuances of flying tailwheel aircraft, we'll cover every aspect of flight training and the importance of finding the right balance between technology and real-world experience.
Finally, we'll share some light-hearted banter about our upcoming trips to Oshkosh and Pre-Cash, as well as some funny stories about our mechanic encounters. So buckle your seatbelt and prepare for takeoff as we embark on this high-flying adventure together!
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So Barb recently engaged with. There's a really cool F 35 Sim out in the New York City area. Let's talk about that.
Speaker 2:Yeah, oh, my God, it was the coolest thing. Guys, it's a company, i don't know. Am I allowed to say the name?
Speaker 1:of this company. Can I just, you can and Rob can Bleep it or not. Either way, great.
Speaker 2:Float it out, so I'll tell you guys, there's a squeaky duck.
Speaker 3:Emoji Right, and he's helicopter noise.
Speaker 2:He does that a lot lately, so it's called the squadron. There's one in Israel and there's one in New York City And it is run by Israeli Air Force vets. And so it originated as an organization where you, let's say, you were like the boss of a company. You'd bring your employees in and they'd sit you down in this briefing room and you would learn how to like the basics of flying an F 35 with the throttle and the stick and where I mean it was insane. And then you know, you'd play around a little bit in the Sim and then they'd have you work together.
Speaker 2:It was a collaborative team effort to communicate and navigate and meet these targets and reach these goals And ultimately your success relied upon your ability to communicate with your you know, quote unquote co-pilot or first officer or navigator, whatever it was. So I mean, ideally for a company, it's amazing because you can facilitate communication, collaboration and, you know, teamwork through your employees in this really ultimately fun experience. So recently they opened it up to, i guess, the general public, not just companies or larger groups, so you can go yourself. I booked it for myself and my husband as an anniversary activity. We are, we're married 12 years now.
Speaker 3:And I had the anniversary.
Speaker 2:Thank you. So I booked it for the two of us And I mean it was, it was awesome. We were navigating through. They like had the Sim put us in the San Diego area And I mean I've never flown around there. So like I mean, and he's never, like he's never flown period, so it was. It was interesting because he, you know, he was like I would turn to to three, zero And so I turned to three zero, zero and he's like no, i mean I mean zero, three. I was like it's not, it's not the same, that's not the same thing.
Speaker 3:Let's not call them out here, i'm just saying But it was, honestly it was.
Speaker 2:it was great. Turn left, turn right, like this is not how you navigate. you know, yeah, what an amazing like husband and wife experience. Honestly, we left there just smiling right, we just left there, smiling, laughing, we, we, you know, and I mean it. They had, they, had they. Let us put flight suits on. We got to wear like the American flag patch on our arms, and it was, it was the quiet. There was a Maverick helmet I got to wear like this big fat helmet with a head up display. It was super cool, guys.
Speaker 1:You wear the helmet while you're flying.
Speaker 2:So no, but I put it on afterwards. They had the display. They had the the head up, like they had the display projected on the on the sim. So it was like a sim for dummies that had like a little red dot on it And he was like if you fly towards, you know he was Israeli. So, in his accent, if you fly towards the red dot, that's, that's your heading. And I was, you know. I was all like, Oh, you mean zero, three, zero.
Speaker 1:And my husband was like nobody cares. Nobody cares that you know what you're talking about, I care.
Speaker 2:Oh my God, i care Right See.
Speaker 1:I was like I'm not in a flight suit, like we're getting kind of hot. I was wondering about air conditioning and being in a room. That's one of the those things like it looks cool but in reality like they're they're no max and they're meant to resist fire And then just in the casual environment, like a 72 degree room, you're just burning up, sweating and like uncomfortable Was that? was it a thin like cloth thing or was an actual flight suit?
Speaker 2:It was not a thin cloth thing, It definitely felt legitimate It was it was heavy. They had this room filled with flight sims, Like it wasn't just one.
Speaker 1:they had like seven, I'll project it.
Speaker 2:It was oh my God, it was insane. It was really was. it was insane And we kept being like we pushed this button, what does this button do? And he was like that button fires missiles. No, you may not touch it.
Speaker 3:Don't push the red button.
Speaker 2:It really was that. It really was exactly that. We were like can we shoot things? He was like absolutely not. That's not what we do here.
Speaker 1:So it was more a sim about navigation and communication.
Speaker 2:Absolutely. Yes, it was. I mean, most people that go there don't have any experience flying at all, let alone flying fighter jets, so you know you're not going to be able to shoot Like it was. It was really legitimate. Like, think about it, when you're flying in a flight sim let's say you're flying in a 152 or a 172 flight sim right, it's, it's legitimate in there, it's not a joke, it's not a video game. Like you're, for the most part, you're really utilizing your skills. It was the same idea It was. It wasn't like let's fly around and shoot things. It was let's navigate, let's try and stay upright, let's not crash into you know, see fit, we're not going to fly into the mountain. Where's your altitude? Where's your airspeed? You're going too fast. Like the ideal speed for this mission is about 400 miles an hour and you're going 600. Like, um, or you know, i was like I've never been this fast in my life. Yeah.
Speaker 2:Stole speed in a F 35. Fun fact is 180 knots. I was like I've never even been that fast, but it's still speed dive.
Speaker 1:So did you guys switch roles? and one was a pilot, one scenario, and then another navigator? That's exactly what it was.
Speaker 2:So we were in the sim for a total of I guess each person was in the sim three, three times. So the first, um, he got to go and I got to go, we were next to each other because there were, you know, multiple sims, like I said. So the first time they had us flying through these different targets, just to get a sense of, like what the maneuvering is like, they were like these rings that they he put over Lake Mead in Vegas, you know. So we were flying around and trying to um, go through the rings, and then we went back and we had a debrief and they recorded our flights and they had us watch them back And he gave us different tips on how to better our performance and and based on that and based on how well we had performed, he had us choose new goals and you know, new, you know, i guess like new targets or whatever. And then we went back, using the lessons that we learned during the debrief, and we both performed better than we had we had done the first time. Uh, so that was nice. So we got two sessions there, once, the first time just to see, and then we debriefed and then to to see what we had learned.
Speaker 2:And then the, the second flight, there were the third flight, rather, um, they, he, he, gave us different targets that were each worth a certain amount of points. They were, like you know, landmarks, or just like, even um, like latitude and long, like even just points, and we had to navigate, like we had to find a plan of action and figure out, like what we're using this much time and this kind of speed and this kind of altitude, like how are you going to get these targets? And he flew half of that, and then we paused and then I flew half of it And then, you know, we saw how many targets we were able to get out of 10. Uh, and the one who wasn't flying was the one navigating. So we would stand behind the person flying and sort of communicate directions and see if we could work together based on the initial plan we had come up with.
Speaker 3:So we're using. How many targets did you get out of 10?
Speaker 2:We did so well. Yes, it was so great, it was.
Speaker 1:With the communications where you're on like a headset, or are you just using your voice?
Speaker 2:So it was just our voices at the time I was standing behind him but, um, the instructor was locked in and a headset So he was able to hear, i guess, what was going on internally and he was able to communicate with us through through our headsets. So, like when the two of us were flying in tandem, we were essentially competing against each other to get the targets, to fly through the wings or whatever, and the instructor would have the headset on and he would talk to me and then he would talk to him And he talked to me and him. You know it was, it really was, i mean, the coolest. We learned. We learned a lot and it it really is. It's it's a real lesson in in seeing what we're doing. It's a lesson in in CRM and crew research management.
Speaker 2:I mean I wasn't like as the the pilot, like when I was flying, i mean I couldn't see anything. It was like sometimes I was up really high and I couldn't see, and then I didn't know where I was, and then sometimes we were really I was down lower and he was like I like you need to go up higher, i can't see, like I really hadn't. I relied on him so much as the navigator, like what choices are Azerbaijani for me to be move and whatever the activities are.
Speaker 1:And I сказать We were just like usually we do some work in locating on flyings and myself Meanwhile there was no team that had been sitting up and 내가 me.
Speaker 3:You know, did you meet your teammates in einge, but did you of course contact your teammates, or did you place your name or your gender near each other, or was it like play one on every roll?
Speaker 2:meaning like logable in my pilot logbook.
Speaker 3:Yes, a BATD or AATD.
Speaker 2:I actually have flown in a BATD before and logged the hours. There is a, Because in New York City it's all class Bravo, So there's no like flight schools there. So when I fly I fly out of Jersey and I was looking for something to sort of supplement that and I found an awesome simulator, an accredited, certified BATD simulator or was it AATD, whatever it was, but he fully put the. I was allowed 2.5 hours from my private pilot and we fully logged them And it was so informative and so amazing. I mean he helps people work towards all different ratings. He's like this united captain that on the side like has a sim and he fully runs a flight school using it. So I've done that.
Speaker 3:One of the aspects of our flight training fleet that we are incorporating is we have traded for a AATD Redbird FMX simulator that is in transit to our flight school currently And we really feel that the data will help our private pilots, our instrument rated pilots, our additional certificate pilots, to help get them to where they need to be On those days, especially in Texas, those days you can't fly or can't fly, so I'm confident it will help. Absolutely I'm curious if y'all have any input on that. See what you guys think.
Speaker 2:I do. Actually, i wish I had show prepped better In my courses, through Emory Riddles, through getting my aeronautics certificate. We did some work on simulators and understanding the effectiveness of the BATD and the AATD and how they really can improve or not, whether they're helpful or hurtful. And I believe that they're extremely helpful up to a certain point. I think that was the result that we had gotten was they can only supplement so much and then eventually, like, circling all the way back. You know you need that physical feel of the engine, you know understanding like but I mean a Redbird simulator, those are full motion, aren't they?
Speaker 2:The one we are, yes, the one we are moving is yes, those are way more effective than the other ones that are just simply a screen or like a setup that you might buy and have in your home, even though those are exceptionally effective as well. to a point, i think the full motion simulators are almost as good as the real thing And I think that it's going to not just like propel your students forward. I think it's going to like exponentially propel your students forward. I can probably look back at some of my research and some of my papers and studies and all that and I can totally give it to you, but I think there was a genius decision for you to make and I think it's going to be the right move for your flight school for sure.
Speaker 1:I think the basic and advanced training devices, especially your applicable when logging hours for instrument currency, ipcs, and then also initial training with that, i think for private pilot stuff. You know you don't get as many opportunities to log those hours, but I'm definitely seeing more flight schools locally they're using virtual reality headsets. So it's not necessarily a time that you're logging on your logbook that applies to your application for private certificate but rather the life experience being put in those scenarios and being able to control Z in a way of undoing that and going right back to that scenario again, over and over and over, and it saves an amount of time You're spending on aircraft cost and rentals and then also you know really you're just paying that ground time to that, that CFI on the ground Initially. I think it's really cool having virtual reality be so accessible now and it's not as obscures used to be And more flight schools utilizing that for the private students in particular is a really cool opportunity.
Speaker 1:And there's a fun stuff like the F 35 Sim which does correlate to some of your decision making in actual aircraft. You do have those relevant flight experiences like the difference between 300 and 030 is a lot, but it sounds like who no one cares Barb It's not true Barb cares or any other pilot in that scenario. So, starting to make that, like said, taking some of those concepts that you learned in ground school and then, like your first student, long cross country, you're out there applying it for real and you're leaving the zip code, so to say definitely. I think that's a lot of relevancy in some of the SIM training, even if it's not logable.
Speaker 1:But then we have have the Redbird, have a little bit of limited motion And they're not a million dollar SIM, so they're accessible and they're becoming more available to different flight schools at different scales of economy And I think it's really cool, like I said much earlier on, for flight, more prevalent now all these technologies in terms of like the internet, giving you this information you like, use that, don't, don't be a curmudgeon and only use paper plates and E6Bs. But, you know, finding that balance of like how much technology is appropriate versus relying on it all the time, i think it's still something that will evolve over time in terms of like what we find appropriate and minimum. So I'm involved in like instrument flying at the moment with like the ATD, the frescoes, and you can go up to 20 hours with those things versus I think the basic is like 10. So that's that's money in your pocket By not having to rent the whole. You know the assessment is an hour, like $200 an hour, and so we did this approach And then now we have to fly the circuit all the way back to that approach again And that's time spent on the Hobbes that you're not learning, you're just, you know, wasting. So instead you could jump to these different scenarios and logged or not logged is definitely a lot more real world experience in terms of being in that scenario versus just thinking about it or reading about it. But having done it yourself, especially with the newest flights, i'm very impressed with the capabilities with VR. So leveraging that ahead of lessons and after definitely can augment some of those learnings you had And then, hopefully, when you engage with a flight instructor after, start to understand that you should make some of these smaller changes here or there and use it as a tool and debriefing and communicating before and after, rather than this is it, i did it, i don't need to learn anymore, so that that the old saying about this is a license to learn.
Speaker 1:So you get that certificate just the beginning. So there's a lot of opportunities to expand and grow into different scenarios and not only fly that Cessna 172 but you know, when you get that private certificate gives you a lot of privileges to fly other bigger, faster things within reason, you know, pending high, high performance endorsements and tail will and all these other scenarios. But Sims definitely are an amazing investment in the community for the pilots locally And utilize that as a student pilot early on. The highly emphasize that is an opportunity to save money also. So if you can log in or not, just do it. It's pretty fun to experiment also, especially if you're not logging time.
Speaker 3:Yeah, especially. You know, one of the aspects that we we found is that you can, you can brief that solar cross country that your student is going to do, and especially for instrument training or anything else It's, it's just beneficial being able to talk to controllers, being able to talk to the mics and, speaking of instrument, you know, you can always and a lot of these sim trainers Tyler, i don't get to work with your Sims that you get to work with some of the 737 Max trainers that are like I can't, let me know Me too, but here, here, if a lot of these, you can put the pause button and say, hey, i really feel like I didn't get to. I didn't get that. I didn't get that VR approach, i didn't get that ILS approach, i didn't get that. I missed that fix. Let's reset things that you can't do in an airplane.
Speaker 2:Totally.
Speaker 3:Typically.
Speaker 2:And so it helps.
Speaker 3:Yeah, go ahead It totally does.
Speaker 2:I was going to say I think the benefit of those advanced full motion Sims, like the one you're getting for your flight school, Jared, is that you can have those, those, those vestibular illusions right. Those, those can be present there. You can really make someone feel like they're pitching up, when they're really accelerating, or like you can give all of those sensations to students and have them really build on their awareness and improve in a sense where you won't be able to necessarily get that in it in a basic sim trainer. So I mean, i think it really is as close as possible to the real thing and it's super beneficial.
Speaker 3:I think our approach to it is if you I have a glass jar and you put a bunch of rocks in it, it is the sand that fills in the gaps and is capable to help in the training model. That's our approach to it. I like that analogy.
Speaker 2:I love that.
Speaker 1:Dido.
Speaker 2:Jinx.
Speaker 1:I was under the pressure for a long time that a student showing up arriving with a lot of some time would be a deterrent to them learning. Well, as a new student I've heard based on some of the previous episodes on this podcast, lee actually really liked having some of these students that had that experience and it has helped positively move the baton in the right direction. So I'm learning more about especially the more modern flight sims that they are helping quite a bit more with relevancy and context to all the different things that we need to facilitate when we're learning and then in practice when we're flying. So, encouraging that use of flight simulators earlier on, i think it's really cool that flight simulators are at the point where they're photo realistic also in terms of like planning ahead for cross countries and looking for landmarks Now, where before it was more like pilotage and you're flying this direction for a certain amount of time and you couldn't see anything.
Speaker 1:But now you can actually see that white water tank over there and it's on like the downwind for three, four And so, and then you add in the virtual reality and you have more of that sight picture and some of that presence of being in that flight deck of, like the 172 versus the 150, a little bit different size and proportions, or heck, let's just jump right into the 747 and bust some Bravo. Yeah, there's all sorts of wild fun adventures, like flying F-35 even though they never flown an airplane at all and just kind of forsake the what's the difference between these cardinal directions but the engagement and aviation and this fun and should be fun and all aspects. There's moments of learning where are less fun and kind of involve some serious debriefing and reflection, but overall you know you get to that point where you get your certificate and all those different experiences you accumulated over time being a student and encourage multiple instructors and flying with multiple people because you get different viewpoints. Every time I've flown with a different instructor I always have some kind of comment that I feel like I'm on top of this. But I flew with this other instructor and she says I taxi too fast and this other guy wants me to look more straight ahead on downwind and looking out for traffic over here and things that vulnerabilities I thought that I had covered, but in reality they have their perspectives and probably reasons why they care about that specific element And especially when you do tailwheel training, when you have, you're basically flying the aircraft from the moment you're firing it up all the way to the hangar, so it's always flying, even when you're taxiing nice and slow.
Speaker 1:You're suddenly those crosswind components and all those things in terms of, like, how you're putting inputs into the Elaron and elevator and rudder, suddenly are extremely relevant when you have that tailwheel aircraft.
Speaker 1:So, but then some people never do tailwheel at all And you know so they don't have that perspective and they don't have some of those worries about the crosswind inputs. And so having flown with multiple people, like I said, you start to get more echoes of their experience and it might not make sense at the time And that's part of why I like to ask why, like, why are you concerned about that? Not to question or challenge them, but to understand and flood fill a little bit like the sand between the rocks, like what? what am I missing here? And I think that that's a great thing about aviation, polsomely, is we'll never learn at all, and just like a license to learn, but it's too much to know. And by working together again in that community, flying with friends, people you don't know, you, i've never not flown or been flown in an aircraft and not picked up some kind of like little nuance and augment that with the sims and all the different scales of the sim. It's quite the quite the hobby involved in, i'd say.
Speaker 3:You know, i'm actually really I would like to get Barb's professional advice on this because as we transition to this ATD, seeing the transitional data that we get from the sim to the physical aircraft and the flying and the lessons and everything else, that's been a that's been a big proponent for us to know what we are going to see and versus. Is it going to make a difference, is it not? And I know Tyler has seen a lot in his sim training and with his pilots, but especially with Barb's, your research especially.
Speaker 2:Yeah, So you're asking like what have I seen in the research?
Speaker 3:Well, just in the difference between I'm curious what we're going to see and to present the data to you, hmm.
Speaker 2:I mean, you're totally always, obviously welcome to present data to me. I can give, if you give me like. Thank you, of course, if you give me a couple of minutes, i'm going to go back into my notes and I'm going to pull something out for you. I'll have some nuggets of information. I wonder, oh yeah. I'm going to look because it's all here. Anyway, i have it Two hours later.
Speaker 2:So muscle memory is a big one in the simulator. Emergency situations, all of that repetition of targeted skills is simpler with the simulator but with so many options available, studies were done on the transferability of training, just like you were saying, jared, like how does it transfer into the cockpit and does it really transfer on different types of simulators and the types of simulators available today. Like we said, they exist for nearly every type of aircraft. Some are full motion and they're classified as AAFTD Advanced Aviation Flight Training Devices and others are considered basic aviation flight training devices, baftd. In fact quote the FAA has determined that instructors can successfully teach these procedural skills, such as performing a before landing checklist during ground training using ATDs. End quote. So the FAA also says that operations, training and maneuvers can be taught in an FTD as well. So FTD is just flight training device. By the way, there's basic and advanced, but FTD just flight training device as well. As in terms of teaching CRM, crew resource management, it's exceptionally evident that cockpit crew resource management can be taught in a flight training device. And simulator is a safe space to practice CRM because you can explore and understand where the limits of your envelope is in a safe environment. Crews can be placed in a realistic emergency situations and work on their response, their risk management, their mitigation and their cooperation together without ever realistically being in danger. So that's a good one.
Speaker 2:One of the benefits of an AAFTD or even a fixed base simulator with that doesn't move, with a wrap around screen, is the brain is able to fully be immersed in the experience. And when the borders of the simulator screen are seen by the peripheral vision, the brain doesn't always perceive danger. That was, that's a fact Boeing discovered. So if the borders of the screen are seen by personal vision, the brain doesn't always perceive the danger, and that is for this reason that cheaper flight simulators can certainly be used to teach procedural and operational tasks.
Speaker 2:But for part 121 or commercial flight training, a full motion simulator should be used, particularly because a first officer's first flight for revenue is carrying passengers And all training for such flights need to take place outside the aircraft. That's an interesting thing to think about, because a first officer is flying the first time they're ever flying and making money it's with passengers. So every time they are training before then they need to. It needs to take place outside the aircraft. So full motion simulator should be used for something like that. And lastly, that training should be in the most high tech environment possible to adequately simulate all training situations. And then I have a bunch of references. So that's all the data I have on that.
Speaker 3:Well, i think there goes in response to is there's a buttonology to that. you have to learn your avionics systems. you have to learn And I'm sure Lee could weigh in heavily on that as well to definitely affirm what your studies are showing. It makes a big difference, it does. You don't want to learn this.
Speaker 3:You don't want to learn these things in an aircraft in the soup as you're doing it. How much better could it help if you are familiar with your buttonology and your flows in the soup as you're training for your instrument rating and or private pilot, commercial etc.
Speaker 2:Yeah, but it the research seems to say that the transferability of those skills is relatively seamless, which goes back to what Lee was saying is how he likes getting students who have had experience in simulators, because it just a little bit more, they're a little bit further along in their training even though they've never actually been in an aircraft. So it seems like those things transfer And, like I had said earlier, with the simulators that are full motion you can experience those vestibular illusions and you know, you can really work to train your brain, your muscle memory. all of that can happen totally in a safe space and on the ground.
Speaker 3:So that's going to be 100%.
Speaker 2:Tyler's smiling What's so funny.
Speaker 1:There's that 100%. I was thinking hand-fibs, the t-shirt 100%, 100% 100.
Speaker 3:Yeah, that's 2024 pre-cuff.
Speaker 1:Yeah, i was just thinking like the void of not hearing Scott Lee or Rob in any of this and just the three of us going wrapping out about aviation. That was so cool. Appreciate the opportunity. I mean this is pretty wild.
Speaker 3:I could actually throw out that. We have six minutes till. It's my bedtime There, you go Yeah.
Speaker 1:At some point this thing will shut off as well. Oh.
Speaker 2:Well, if your browser up Jared, you know you don't have Wi-Fi. Yeah.
Speaker 3:On the space station out in Texas. I would love to, but I got to get up at 4 am. There you go.
Speaker 2:Yeah, you had detoxing over the weekend.
Speaker 3:It's just, i mean it's, you know, tomorrow's Monday. I drink on the weekends, yeah.
Speaker 1:Right, right, my neighbors are apparently playing a game of.
Speaker 2:It was a very good impression, Jared.
Speaker 1:Cold as sack baseball out there and they're screaming. I don't know if you can hear me that It's very distracting, and then the car alarm was going off earlier too, so No, can't hear a word. Good. Or the children screaming That's great, yeah, that's great, that's great.
Speaker 2:Guys, to follow up on something just for a sec. The aviation community is insanely split on this can airplane takeoff of a conveyor belt situation. I posted on Instagram my a little clip from the filler clip that was posted last week with regards to this argument And I put up a little poll asking can an airplane take off a conveyor belt? And it was literally a 50 50 split, Like six people voting yes and six people voting no, which is a lot of people to be voting and like be polarized. And then I had people messaging me being like if anybody thinks no, they shouldn't be flying, And then somebody being like if anybody thinks yes, then then they're stupid.
Speaker 2:And it was. It wasn't even like people who didn't know what they were talking about. Like it was an Air Force pilot who now, like he was, he's an Air Force vet and now he flies like commercial for something, And he was like no, it's absolutely 100%. And he like gave me notes and facts. And then it was like an, an army pilot. That was like absolutely Yeah. And then, like it was like legitimate people that had real opinions and I couldn't even believe that it's so split, Yeah.
Speaker 1:It's one of the most polarizing things out there And, especially given certain experiences, uh starts to inform opinions that get stronger. And then there's people that have no experience and they have their own concrete opinion about something, and therefore it's kind of like to watch people watch the world burn. In that regard, like um, yeah, it's interesting, like how, how the questions written or perceived That's what it is, by the way, it's the assumptions made, like people were like oh well, you know, are the wheels free?
Speaker 2:spit, Like are they. Are they spinning faster than the airplanes going? Are you on the brakes first? How long is the treadmill Like when people you have to specifically put out? it's not just kind of an airplane take off a conveyor belt, It's like, given X, Y and Z, Can an airplane take off a conveyor belt? And I think most people would agree if you give the circumstances.
Speaker 1:Yeah, more details to it. Um, yeah, it's been around for well, i'd say almost a decade that I'm aware of and still something people argue about and it's hilarious. Like I have, i have no dog in that fight and like, okay, whatever, like uh there's certain other similar uh stories like that. That. It's just so funny how it gets brought out. Like there's math questions out there on, like the Facebook and all the Grammys fighting over um, certain orders of equations and whatnot. Um, like Pemba and anyway. That's funny how that that uh yeah, i, i know, with an absolution, this is the correct answer, and then that conviction often gets people burned.
Speaker 2:So yeah, Well, I can tell everybody that if you're interested in hearing more about this argument, please log on to pilotgroundcom and consider being a. What do you call it?
Speaker 1:Yeah, ground crew, ground crew Yeah.
Speaker 2:So there you go.
Speaker 1:That one's for you, Rob, I think yeah, this is a good like segue into.
Speaker 2:It's very worth it, By the way. It's very worth it.
Speaker 1:It's brought us all together, brought us here, yeah, so this was all brought to you by the ground crew. Uh, although microphones are speaking on were uh part of some of the funds accumulated from the ground crew. They sent out these uh microphones and some equipment that we could record this on Some of the facility updates for uh Rob, lee and Scott uh giving them together in person. The quality of their recordings has gone up trifold since uh they've they've gotten together And then, having been in that environment the very first in person recording is so nice to get instant feedback and seeing people in the flesh with uh where they're looking and and there's no, there's no delay.
Speaker 1:Uh, so some of those in person recordings. Uh, thank you, ground crew for subscribing to pilot ground website, pilot groundcom. Yep, that's where you can find a continued discussion of this conversation. If you have any questions for any three of us or Lee, scott and Rob um with. There's also a chat element to that, which is where this whole uh takeover was conceived, just kind of more as a tongue in cheek And then Rob took that and gave us a uh, our own link to start creating a recording.
Speaker 1:Here we are, um so thanks, rob. Yeah, so thank you to the ground crew Rob Lee, scott and um Lee, for creating this awesome community and expanding on some of these conversations that uh have procured through multiple episodes in some cases, including the the conveyor belt argument that uh, this still again I feel like years of polarizing conversations and keeps coming up every now and then. So there's a great recap of that between Lee and uh Barb recently and they have an upcoming episode. I believe there'll be recording one on one.
Speaker 2:It's going to be a great summer for um faring podcast.
Speaker 1:They're on a temporary break right now. We're just in here having fun and taking over. So it is, i think, the end of episode one 35. Thanks everyone for listening and we'll see you in the chat. Bye.
Speaker 3:Bye, bye, thanks for joining, bye.
Speaker 2:And the outro music. And the outro music Cool.
Speaker 1:So you got to get your bedtime coming up. I think we have some. we have two hour 50 minutes of recording at this point, So have some extra filler. We have core content, hopefully, Rob and cut up into components.
Speaker 3:Yes, something Reorientate it. You didn't do the three, two, one.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and three, two, one And three two, one And okay, everybody.
Speaker 3:I got a P and give my kids a kiss real quick before bed.
Speaker 1:Okay, Yep All right, we'll see you in a minute. Be right back.
Speaker 2:Go for it All right, yeah, and then the welcome to the Bahrain podcast.
Speaker 1:I tried, tried to emulate something like that, but we'll see how it works out, if there's music or not. But kind of you know, this is a takeover, it's a good, it's good, feel good music and kind of hear that Like I think you found it on Spotify independently and just kind of like it brings back warm memories of like a new episode being released. Oh, my God, it might have missed the live stream. Yeah, isn't it awesome.
Speaker 2:I put it. it's like you know, going through my playlists now, it's just it pops up and I'm like ooh.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah. And then hearing stuck music come up from again, some of those like core memories of things you didn't necessarily think you would care about. And then, like it comes back to you like oh my gosh, like this is awesome And some of the sounds like yeah, firing up, shutting down airplane, the sights and smells, and all those things that you think like oh, it was my, my, you know, perfect, landing in the crosswind And you don't remember that stuff. It's just all those little subtle things. So yeah, Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1:This podcast is typically like I often in the comments, trying to throw it off the rails, and sometimes I success successfully. Do that The comments I make often won't be said verbally So I can say whatever I want in text and then, especially if Scott reads it and then laughs, hearing them, hearing them giggle is is definitely where I enjoy hearing that feedback.
Speaker 2:Yeah, oh my God. I remember the first time I was ever in the chat Actually, it wasn't even then the first time I was ever unmentioned on the podcast. Fun fact is, i left a review, i think it was on Apple podcasts or Spotify. And they, in the beginning, they they read reviews and they read my review and I remember being like, oh my God, i'm famous.
Speaker 2:Yeah, i made it I made it, and then I ended up in the chat and then I remember the first time they were like hello, barb, what are you drinking? And I was like oh my God. I have a like I have a crew, like I fit somewhere. You know the Varian podcast will do that to you for sure.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it's fun kind of formulating from like the plan of just being there to participate to suddenly being actively in basically that that ground crew and then you know, participating in the forum is one thing, but in the chat and then hearing it make it to the recordings is pretty fun and engaging. But the fact that they, they remember us and then again here we are like to make an impression through either your reviews or some of the comments you made, that are informed and they're showing some of your knowledge about whatever that subject was at the time, versus just lasting through it.
Speaker 1:It's been pretty fun And then having a couple of steps ahead, Meeting each other, like you got to meet Rob down in Florida. Yeah, Jordan and I met each other out in Ohio and at Precache and a bunch of other characters that were there, and you know, extended period of time is super fun. So all from that, all from a silly podcast that I thought was going to be super serious, And there are moments definitely of absolute execution of you know, some serious moments, others not so much, but yeah, it's good stuff. So amazing.
Speaker 2:I remember there was one day I didn't have my phone with me and it was. I guess we had started a conversation on pilot ground and I wasn't like finished finishing it or I wasn't involved or whatever. And at the end of the day and you guys throughout the whole day were like where is Barb? Is she okay? What's going on? Let's keep tagging her. Who knows her in real life?
Speaker 1:It was a countdown, it was a manhunt for me.
Speaker 2:It was, i'm not going to lie, very flattering. I was like there's like a group of people who just want to know if I'm okay and where I am Yeah that's pretty funny Yeah that's pretty funny.
Speaker 1:That was genuine friendship right here. Yeah, all from you know internet podcast Pretty fun. I enjoy some of the comedy of endured and procured even just from like random internet facts about airplane stuff And I can get we can get Lee thrown off just a little bit. It's always entertaining.
Speaker 2:Yeah, i remember there somebody posted a picture once of a bee in their cockpit and I'll never forget it because it makes me laugh every single time. I just kept posting all these different puns. My favorite was you know, monitor one, two. you know one, two, one point hive.
Speaker 3:That was one of my favorite.
Speaker 2:No, my God. One, two, one point hive. There's nothing better.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, there's a. I think you start to dig into that stuff and start to annoy Lee. It's pretty funny.
Speaker 2:The best, the best. He got really annoyed on my episode, so much that he contacted me afterward and was like I need, i like, like you didn't say enough, like we need to do another podcast.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, some of these, like you know, even an hour, just clearly not enough. And then going, whenever I've done a episode either a hill cop or sea plane you typically were just bantering for three hours. It just it feels like 10 minutes And, yeah, there's just never enough time. And having to spread them out And it's pretty cool You got multi-part episode in yours as well There's just too much to talk about And that's the great thing about learning and aviation is there's so much to expand on. And then again all those different experiences people have had or haven't, and talking through those super fun, i'm grateful for that.
Speaker 3:It really felt like our pre-gosh episode was 45 minutes. Yeah, but it was a long time.
Speaker 2:I was an awesome episode. I loved it.
Speaker 1:We man, yeah that, that site.
Speaker 3:I was building a tent at 1 am in the middle of high and field.
Speaker 1:I saw the trains going by.
Speaker 3:Oh gosh, it was ridiculous. All right Next year. No, i'm a hotel. Yeah, yeah The uh hotels are quite arbyz.
Speaker 1:That sounds about right.
Speaker 2:I can't believe you. I can't believe you did that.
Speaker 3:Well, i was committed at that point but You were, you gave them your word.
Speaker 1:That was. That was quite the uh the setup. And then I was surprised, um some of the stuff that we're. We ended up doing that that same day that I have like, uh, thursday night.
Speaker 2:Like the foam pit that he has at the front.
Speaker 1:Oh yeah, Yeah, yeah, the golf cart ride We were. There were many golf cart rides, but there's one specific golf cart ride that was very uh notorious with uh lack of safety. It was fun.
Speaker 3:It was. it was very much a tuck and roll. Yeah, Um, yeah.
Speaker 1:Yeah. So there's definitely a lot going on at a Delta the, the quality of the facilities, all the up upkeep, basically, from Scott's dad out there with that, uh, industrial lawn mower and um, yeah, everything just curbing the edging, all everything about it is just top quality and it's more than just some home airport It's, it's a, it's a true facility, is it's awesome, and I hope that um more people can make it out to pre-cash. next, if there is one, uh, in 2024,.
Speaker 2:I'll be there. Jared's coming to get me.
Speaker 1:Seems like there's a cadence right now, And uh, you know I'm I'm wearing the pre-cash shirt again, kind of anytime we're engaged with this podcast. It's kind of been a tradition to wear. But yeah, man, those were some last memories where I'll wear mine. Yeah, Um, Yeah Yeah ultimately Tyler's tradition.
Speaker 2:It's nobody else Yeah.
Speaker 3:Well, you know, yeah, that's not, that's not to lie.
Speaker 1:I'm the. I'm almost a veteran on on the amount of times I've recorded my stupid voice, so every time I used to wear this shirt. So, um, and Rob as well. It's fun to see that, especially when they're back in Ohio together. Uh, it's good stuff. Um, i think I'm about tapped out for some of the opportunities they're emerging right now with, um my bit, my neighborhood is missing me on the baseball game apparently. I see people staring at me through the window.
Speaker 2:Oh, that's funny, because it's still like daytime.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, look yeah.
Speaker 2:Oh my God, you see my wind, it's pitch black out here.
Speaker 3:Yeah, yeah, it's, it's. It's dark here.
Speaker 2:Whatever, we don't have to prove to each other. We know when it's nighttime, it's dark. I'm not going to show you my window.
Speaker 3:It's actually storming quite violently here. Oh really, Oh wow, I tbspatyd limited Woo, But hey bar in podcast, it's gotta go on.
Speaker 2:It's gotta go on.
Speaker 1:So we're 30 seconds short, even if we're taking it over. Yeah, two hours, i think we made it. We make it to that two hour mark and then we can call it. I think this is great, where there's a lot to good conversation here, and then, you know, maybe do this again some point when they need our help.
Speaker 3:Hey, tb, i appreciate all your help Me too, from the technical and to the Washington to Texas trip. I have not got to share that information with you. Yeah, a whole lot, yeah, but your help was tremendous, awesome, thank you so much.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I would love to hear more about that. Maybe they bring you on as guests to talk about that trip and then like putting it into practice, That concept into reality of doing that real cross country flying and the constraints you had.
Speaker 2:I would love to hear about that actually.
Speaker 1:Yeah, because you know you pair that up with your first trip from Texas all the way to Ohio, dude, that's amazing. And then some of the other trips you've done recently that are like ferry flights, basically for new aircraft to your fleet. Putting that especially as like a younger pilot in that regard, you know, just going out and doing it is amazing. So I think there's some lessons you've probably learned about certain things you probably would not do again or found to be efficient. I remember watching your flights and there's a couple of them where you guys were circling above an airport for quite a while to build air.
Speaker 3:We were in Blackfoot. We were in Blackfoot and we were climbing. We had to climb to meet our altitude risk? Yeah, no, i would. No, it was VFR. I was not instrumented at that point, so we were just. We were climbing for altitude restriction, like just or not restriction, but clearance. So, yeah, it was one of the best adventures of my life. Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2:Definitely worth its own whole episode.
Speaker 1:Yeah, i would highly recommend coordinating with Rob on that. I know that there's definitely enough for a whole episode there.
Speaker 2:And see, this is how people get on the podcast. They talk about getting on the podcast. On the podcast.
Speaker 1:Yeah, peer pressure, peer pressure, finally, awesome. Well, let's work on making that happen, because I'd love to hear more about the flight from Texas to Ohio, to start, and then some of the things you've gone on from that into leaving completely unfamiliar territory, leaving your familiar territory out somewhere like Washington and augmented like weather scenario with the crappiest visibility, the smoke and the health hazards from that Cause yeah, you don't want to fly in that smoke for too long and you can't see the visibility is terrible. So, yeah, awesome. Well, let's, let's make that happen. And then, yeah, let's wrap this up and call this 135. Thank you so much, guys. Thank you, this is great Bye everybody.
Speaker 3:I'll see you. See you In the meantime. Do we all need a drink break, or I mean we could always do that.
Speaker 2:That's a good idea.
Speaker 3:I mean the guy's taking all the time, Come on.
Speaker 1:Yeah, they do, let's do one hour 30 in, so we're doing pretty good, i think we're already at bed? Yeah, leave the browser up.
Speaker 2:Leave the browser. I'm going to find it. I have all of this.
Speaker 1:It was funny getting able to say that to him in real life when he's physically leaving the recording facility.
Speaker 3:That's a big deal, man, that's a big deal. Hey Barb, it's kind of a mandate You got to be there in 2024.
Speaker 2:Oh my God, of course I'm going to be there in 20 of my work.
Speaker 3:I will come pick you up.
Speaker 1:Okay, yeah, it'll be amazing, this is recording.
Speaker 2:You should put it out on the podcast. Hold you to it. We're going to have all the people. Hold you to it.
Speaker 3:Oh, it's out there, it's done, it's a verbal.
Speaker 2:Oh, it's excited, It's going to be a fun plane ride because it's happening.
Speaker 3:I'll be there. Okay, here we go, it's happening. Tyler 2024 pre-cash.
Speaker 1:Yeah, you know I'm going to Oshkosh this year. Yeah, we might combine Oshkosh and pre-cash. I'll see you there.
Speaker 2:You're going to go.
Speaker 3:Oh yeah Me too I'm going.
Speaker 2:I'll be there Sunday night, monday Tuesday Perfect, i'll probably see you Tuesday. Oh my God Awesome.
Speaker 1:Cool, i'll see. Yeah, we're going to go this year but the housing scenario kind of fell through with what we were going to have The house that we normally rent got sold and then a bunch of other things played out or it was like I don't know. Things can work out. So 2024, it would be really cool to pre-cash and Oshkosh. It's awkwardly, like far enough away from each other that you can't just casually hop between. But No, yeah, make it like an extended trip. Especially, i don't think there's as many lessons learned from pre-cash because it was super fun.
Speaker 1:But if we had the same.
Speaker 3:No cancer fires.
Speaker 1:Yeah, same environment, minus the trash fire and lung cancer.
Speaker 3:Tyler, i got to ask do you get the top bunk or the lower bunk?
Speaker 1:Yeah For pre-cash.
Speaker 2:No, for behind you, man.
Speaker 1:Oh, that's Ella's. There's only a top bunk actually, so Oh yeah. Okay, roger, ah yeah, yeah, this is the most well-lit room.
Speaker 3:So good at text me and say dude, Jared's not hammered. Do I sound?
Speaker 1:hammered. I think part of the problem is it's three hours later, So I am. It's a quarter to seven here, so I'm doing fine.
Speaker 2:Oh well, yeah, It's 9.45 here.
Speaker 1:Yeah, exactly That's the tough thing. I've done some recordings in the past with this, like the crew basically like still working hours, or the live streams, like three or four in the afternoon, like I'm still working, i can't be where do you drinking Nothing?
Speaker 3:Three in the afternoon. My hammered drug is just the Southern accent.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 3:It's just Annunciation is not our best. Yeah, the draw.
Speaker 1:It's all good. I like the diversity in some of the accents here and when. Barbs is awesome especially.
Speaker 2:Me when I say awesome Yes.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:Why do I say it weird?
Speaker 1:No, i think it's the most New York part of it Like when you say it with conviction Yeah, exactly, there you go.
Speaker 3:Awesome. I love when you text yes.
Speaker 2:Yeah, do I text, yes, i do.
Speaker 3:Yes, i love that Y-A-A-A. Yes, yes, queen, yes, that's amazing. Oh my God, that's amazing.
Speaker 2:I'm glad Tyler did I tell you about my adventure at the Mechanics the other day. You would love it?
Speaker 1:I do not. I'm not aware of that.
Speaker 2:Oh my God, i don't. I'm not good. It's like the ultimate New York experience. But like I don't know anything about cars at all, And. I had to drop my car at all And I had to drop my car off to get an inspection. And so I drop it off and you know it's Brooklyn. It's Brooklyn and the guy's name is Tommy and he lives in you know whatever. And I drop the car off and then he calls me up. He tells me I don't even know how you got here, you have a gash in your tire.
Speaker 2:The size of it's like a big U. You're going to need a whole new tire. Yeah, somebody stole the back wiper off the back of your car. You don't understand. You're going to need a tire. I called the guy in Kenosso He don't have it. Call the guy in Brooklyn, downtown He don't have it. I called the guy in Manhattan He don't have it. They have you tie all the way in Jersey, but I don't know if they're driving over here because of the smoke. First It's the COVID, then it's the smoke. He's not going to bring it over. I miss his son. You're not going to have a car. I was like what do you mean? I've been driving it forever Like there's no gish. Anyway, bottom line is, of course I had to pay for the new tire to come from the thing because of the special foam in my tire, because of the electrical system has a problem And it just kept reminding me. Has anybody ever seen that movie? my cousin, vinny.
Speaker 1:Yes, yes, my brother is a mechanic.
Speaker 2:My brother is a mechanic. Like that's what I'm going to have to be a mechanic, but I can turn the Brooklyn on very heavy. Yeah, i love this.
Speaker 3:It will absolutely be in the bonus clip.
Speaker 2:My father's father's a mechanic. I'm a mechanic.
Speaker 1:Barb goes on.
Speaker 2:a monologue Is this just a mechanic. All right, barb is a mechanic, she's from Brooklyn.
Speaker 2:In case anybody wanted to know. She's like you know what's her name, megan Robbie in that, uh, wolf of Wall Street, like that. Um, I do have information, by the way, on these simulators. It's basically what I said, but, um, having simulated training opportunities is provided pilots with a cheaper, goal oriented and realistic way to train. Muscle memory can be developed for maneuvers or emergency situations. Things like flows, stuff like that is really um, like you know if you go through it. It's like it's like you know when you what do you call that? Not air flying, what do you call that?
Speaker 3:Chair flying.
Speaker 2:Thank you Air flying chair flying, Hang your talk. There it is.