FAR AIM | Aviation Reg's | Aeronautical Info | FARAIM
Old aviation podcast that records once in awhile for old times' sake.
https://forum.pilotground.com
https://rumble.com/FARAIM
FAR AIM | Aviation Reg's | Aeronautical Info | FARAIM
#140 | Your Flight Path to Instruction | Guests: Jeff & Hali
Use Left/Right to seek, Home/End to jump to start or end. Hold shift to jump forward or backward.
Are you ready to take your flying skills to the next level? Today, we bring you an in-depth guide on how to become a certified flight instructor. We unpack all the crucial elements, from the differences between a flight review and a biennial, to the nuances of flying different aircraft, such as the 150 and 172. We also walk you through the process of obtaining a CFII and emphasize the importance of continuous practice and skill refinement.
Have you ever wondered why biannual flight reviews are so crucial? Stick around as we dive into the nitty-gritty of energy management, slips, and the imperative of practicing takeoffs and landings. We also break down complex maneuvers like deep turns, slow flight, and stalls, and differentiate their execution in banner and non-banner planes. As a bonus, we reveal the necessity of rewriting the POH and the secret of landing with the flaps in the last five feet.
In our final segment, we lay bare the strategies for flying into a Bravo airspace and the associated costs. We stress the need for a constant scan during steep turns and caution against the risks of using landmarks for landing. We delve into airport anxiety and discuss the practicality of the application template. Wrapping up, we explore the concept of a legend flight and address the common fear of thunderstorms among pilots. Trust us, you don't want to miss this!
Episode description, transcript and chapter markers brought to you by AI...
-----------
Things change as the years go on. Regardless of what was said in the episode that you are listening to, the best way to reach out to the hosts in 2025 (and chat with other listeners) is by joining (for free) the Pilot Ground Forum here:
The best way to be notified of livestreams in 2025 is to subscribe to the Rumble channel (and turn on notifications) here:
See, it seems like there's a lot more students now.
Speaker 2Yeah, I mean getting to see if I don't know how much money you'll make, but if it's just kind of like a side hustle, I just want to do it just for the challenge of you should.
Speaker 3I think it'll be good for the show. Absolutely. I'm not planning on making a bank doing it, but I think it'll be good for this show, for me to be teaching. I think it'll give us more content and stuff.
Speaker 2I can't wait.
Speaker 3I'm going to sharpen my skills Absolutely.
Speaker 2Can we Calgary and we'll give it a shot.
Speaker 3Yeah, I couldn't legally see if I have been Canada Canada though they're nice up there, they'll let you. Justin, here we go. Yeah, there we go, shut me down.
Speaker 2I'm sure I think it shut me down.
Speaker 3Absolutely so anyway now we're on this.
Speaker 1Can you say A?
Speaker 2Yeah, let's hear your A's A. You want to solo A the.
Speaker 3You could probably teach if it's an American registered plane in another country at a soon.
Speaker 2I don't know, I don't know how to get that in there. I wouldn't imagine.
Speaker 3No.
Speaker 2I don't know, dude Maybe.
Speaker 1I would I think they have different wrecks. Your license, their license would be completely different.
Speaker 3Training in a US airplane. It was a US instructor.
Speaker 1It was a US airplane.
Speaker 3US citizen learning US flight instructor for a US rating. I feel like it might be fine as long as you're not violating any rules. Solo Solo If you have those three items.
Speaker 2it might be okay. I don't know why would we even do that, Because it came up just now.
Speaker 3Yeah, the Canada flight instructor.
Speaker 2Let's make it easy to see. It's cold up there, yeah, especially there, yeah.
Speaker 3Okay Now, what are my steps right now? This is jumping off from zero to solo student. What should I do right now to get myself ready to actually be an instructor?
Speaker 1Was the last time you flew.
Speaker 3It's been a while. Well, there you go. Before the show started.
Speaker 1There you go.
Speaker 2Yeah, your CFI is current right now.
Speaker 1Yes, but your skill levels aren't.
Speaker 3Probably If I was in a 150, I'd probably do it.
Speaker 1When was your last biennial?
Speaker 3Oh, it was probably 2018.
Speaker 2Yeah, but your arena and your CFI doesn't that count as a flight review?
Speaker 3It counts for the hour of ground of the flight review. Okay, not the hour of flight.
Speaker 2Let's just say minimum. Very nice, he's such an instructor, he knows all this stuff.
Speaker 3If somebody out there, if you have, if you're current in your flight review right now and you needed a flight review.
Speaker 1Is that the same thing as a biennial?
Speaker 3Yes.
Speaker 1Thank you.
Speaker 3I could give you that flight review that I need.
Speaker 1Lee's like I'm gonna pistol with the next guy. He says biennial. So, here's the thing.
Speaker 3You can get your. Cfi and revisit before CFI.
Speaker 2Yeah, so Tyler's right.
Speaker 3So if you get anything that would qualify CFI, the double I, like you say in I did that just because I wanted to brush up on my instrument skills and I was trying to you have your double. I, no, no, no. I was going through it for a little bit and then, when I was trying to apply for a tropical ocean airways because, like I spent six months of my life trying to get it, I couldn't even get an interview I met half the company and had drinks with them.
Speaker 1Now they would hire you.
Speaker 2We can probably solve this. I mean, I think that, okay, we can talk about that later. Okay, the CFI issue, the double I you need to fly. Yes Period. Tyler has a good suggestion. Rob should get a CF double I to both revisit his course. He'll find knowledge and something new. Oh yeah, you didn't even address but that would get you the whole thing.
Speaker 3I feel like I am so far away, though, from the double I you just need to fly.
Speaker 2Yeah, so the flight review you're going to need so much time as daunting, as a first time student would be to me from where I am now getting a double.
Speaker 3I's way beyond that. I feel like.
Speaker 2That's totally cool. So, like I've talked about here, like I took, I hadn't flown GA since like 2017 and it took me like three and a half hours of nonstop takeoffs and landings to be halfway normal.
Speaker 3To do? What To do the Cherokee?
Speaker 2I was doing the chat, yeah.
Speaker 3Dr Physics.
Speaker 2Yeah, so Okay, took me three and a half hours and I have like seven work. Yes, nonstop. I don't know how many landings I did 30, I don't know a bunch.
Speaker 3Oh, I bet you I'd have to go, I'd have to look at my medical, it's probably three and a half hours of nonstop landings, just for them to be normal.
Speaker 1Yeah, it's not the Lee. I know this is a Lee.
Speaker 3If I hopped in Scott's plane on a calm wind day out of 88 Delta?
Speaker 2So do it. Yeah, you got to start there then.
Speaker 3Yeah, I could I. It'd be nervous because I hadn't done in a while, but I bet you I'd be fine.
Speaker 2Go do it.
Speaker 3I got to check my medical. I'm sure he's got it all duct taped up for you. Yeah, yes.
Speaker 2Yes, extra duct tape Fresh duct tape.
Speaker 3This mechanic was putting fresh duct tape on it yesterday for me.
Speaker 2Hey, how much safer can you feel Duck jugs in the back? Duct tape on the front.
Speaker 3Yes.
Speaker 2Ready to go. I just just go fly and remember you're not going to be instructing in the 150. Yeah.
Speaker 3The 172.
Speaker 2I'm sure which flies terrible compared to 150. Yeah, most things do yeah.
Speaker 3Why couldn't you instruct in a 150? Nobody's doing it. Nobody's doing it anymore. They're all old and nobody else is doing it.
Speaker 2You guys had a nice 150. I mean and they're just.
Speaker 3I've never seen a 150. Nice in the one.
Speaker 2They were used so heavily as trainers. They have a billion hours on them and, honestly, the student doesn't learn that much because they're too easy to fly in my opinion.
Speaker 3Yeah, so Scott and I are such bad pilots.
Speaker 2That's what I would say, but Rob had to say it for me. You guys are great pilots, but I want to see that skill level in something that requires skill. You see what I'm saying? Yeah, you guys have all the elements of high functioning skill and stick and rudder stuff, but I got decent in that Satabria and that's great, and that's great.
Speaker 2So go fly that some more, go fly that, go instruct in that and start getting a 150. I mean, it's just, I don't know, there's no challenge, that is the least. Or start there, then Start there then.
Speaker 3So that's the least amount of challenge. No challenge. It sounds great. It sounds like a great door to go through.
Speaker 2It would be a good start, but you just, I just wouldn't want you to live there Like I just have a problem with you letting your skills atrophy. You know what I mean.
Speaker 3Yeah.
Speaker 2I worry about that with myself, Like I don't want to go through that. That transition from you know, not flying GA for five years do that, Six years, Do that again. Like that. It's just like I felt like crap. It's like I have like 1800 hours in this type of airplane and I can't land it. Like that's just very mentally hard for me and I don't want to see somebody else do that. And I don't think putting a ton of time into 150, I think is, I think is kind of pointless.
Speaker 3Well, I think could have knocked some rust off.
Speaker 2Absolutely.
Speaker 3Yes, easy way for me to yes, but then you got to go do so.
Speaker 2Okay. So is it more effective to go do five hours, three hours, two hours in a 150? Then go do another three hours in a 172 or just?
Speaker 1How much time do you have in a 172?
Speaker 3I just look at my logbook maybe 20, 30 hours, 30 to 50 hours.
Speaker 1I don't know if he hasn't flown in when I'd say do whatever you feel comfortable to start out with, just so you could like Knock the rest off, but I don't think you should, like you said, stay in that.
Speaker 3It's. It's just so convenient because I could, you know, come back in a month or so From Florida and the skies plane sitting there, if I let me fly, wouldn't even charge me. Throw some gas in it, you know, and I could what's?
Speaker 2what purposes is this gonna serve?
Speaker 3Just to get something in my logbook and like oh, absolutely do a flight review in it.
Speaker 2It's gonna do that.
Speaker 3Echol, you, or Echol or ten of it.
Speaker 2I hear Echol is really dependable yeah.
Speaker 3Almost as dependable as me he's going to see a game tonight. Let's see some text in the last, super last minute.
Speaker 2Uh Indians game.
Speaker 3I have no idea what kind of what kind of the Guardians.
Speaker 2Guardians it's always gonna be that's what he said.
Speaker 1Finally she steps up. It's the.
Speaker 2Guardians playing a progressive field, isn't that funny? Well, I'm sure Indians is really frowned upon oh, where you live. Yeah, I love that.
Speaker 3Okay, he knows. Anyway, give a medical yeah down in Florida, come back next trip up here, yep, weather still be nice, yep. And then Get a CFI.
Speaker 2What's the next trip up here?
Speaker 3Well, I get the transmission, so I'll probably back up beginning of next month, end of this month, to Pick it up.
Flight Review and Biannual Flying
Speaker 2pick up my car, let's go fly man, some of the best time of year to fly up here. You know that.
Speaker 3Yeah, scott will need his, his biannual as well.
Speaker 2Everybody's biannual.
Speaker 3Let's just.
Speaker 2I guess let's bring it back me. I need to lean in instead of.
Speaker 1I think you say it enough it will come back.
Speaker 2Maybe, maybe. Yeah, you need time in the seat, man.
Speaker 3Yeah, you get the time you go, bob.
Speaker 2He'd love to lay his life in your hands and his 150.
Speaker 3Okay, wait, where's he out of them, andrew? Where, we're, yet when yet.
Speaker 2Well, I did see that, andreas, he's a he's, he's, andreas. Miami.
Speaker 3That's, that's good. You need a biannual jar. Fill up, buy some beer Ten cents every time, I don't know. I think you should Put a coin in the jar every time you don't. Southeast Michigan, okay right around the corner Probably yell to you right now an hour and a half probably drove by his house on my way up to Waco the other day.
Speaker 2I bet you probably do him close. Yeah, yeah, that's hot. I was in Vegas. It was 107 degrees, but listen to this, so I was right now in the 8th the. It was a temperature 3, 1 dew point minus 1, 32 degrees spread on the temperature and dew point.
Speaker 3Hmm.
Speaker 1Wow, was dense altitude.
Speaker 2I don't know what it was, thank you.
Speaker 3So Anyway.
Speaker 2Sesson 150 out to get you some time in the seat. Yeah, knock the rust off. I mean honestly, you and Scott can go up. I don't know when his flight review Lapsed, but what I did.
Speaker 3I did I just want to get a flight review. That's usually the easiest way to do it. I Did a flight review with some instructor out of Foxtrot 45 Down in North County Airport down in Florida and it was right after I was and it was insurance check out, never mind.
Speaker 1And.
Speaker 3I just I was in banner plane mode still and so like I Was slipping the 172 in cuz I was a little high because it didn't drop as fast as the banner. But I'm like, just slip this thing. And that dudes face was like yeah, we landed. He's like good, you're good, you're good. Like he knew I was a CFI, wanted to go up with me again.
Speaker 2We still need to like just come in and be like. I don't know anything. A brand new student.
Speaker 3Oh yeah, like the one holding me, like that one driver did the fake is that Jeff. Gordon.
Speaker 1Oh yeah, Jeff Gordon did that. So speak of slips, someone never taught me that.
Speaker 2You shouldn't need to slip. I'm gonna maintain that right now. Okay, go ahead.
Speaker 1Yeah, I needed when I did my check right though he's like do it, I go.
Speaker 3I've never done that, so you told it to you that I never done it, he's all right, let me show you, that was it.
Speaker 1Still pass so nice.
Speaker 3I Don't know if I feel like we did him. Don Showed us those, but I never really learned it until I was banter toned. I didn't have flaps.
Speaker 2There. I mean there's a billion things that I dropped the ball on. I mean there's just no shortage of.
Speaker 1Yeah, but you're solid on that. Power 180 off.
Speaker 2So energy management man cool. If you can do that, you don't need to slip.
Speaker 1It's proud of why you need to slip on your check ride. I don't know, because maybe you didn't really need to.
Speaker 2I don't know, I don't know, I don't know.
Speaker 3Okay, no, no either, you're not gonna be afraid of my flying on the biannual flight review. What are we gonna do on my bad, you know, flight review?
Speaker 2Takeoff's landings.
Speaker 3That's it. I'm gonna go teach these maneuvers I haven't done. Okay, I think it's the last time I know you that's not part that's, you can go.
Speaker 2So here's the thing if we can make you safe, take off and land. Take off obviously pretty easy, anyway, you can do that, but the landings do that. You can go practice deep turns, slow flight, all you want stalls.
Speaker 3I can't remember the last time I did a stall. We'll go do some then. Banter toes planes didn't stall.
Speaker 2That's what I hear. That's what I hear. So, yeah, I mean you can go do that on your own, though why am I gonna ride along with you doing stalls and things? You don't need me there for now.
Speaker 1I would do that. I'd say what do you want to learn? You know.
Speaker 2If we're way more, if I was if I was, if I was doing this by annual. I say okay, I forgot we're doing a flight review, I forgot we're doing a legit flight.
Speaker 1Well, it's first time we're doing by annual. It's not a flight review, we've determined this. It's a by and I might be in Canada.
Speaker 2So it's a. So we're gonna do a flight review, a legit one that I totally forgot we were. I don't know how I spaced on it. We're gonna use deep turns. We're new clean stalls. Take off some landings.
Speaker 3Okay.
Speaker 2That's pretty much my schtick.
Speaker 3That'd be good. I Haven't done.
Speaker 1I concurred, or a stall. I do power 180, throw that in there too.
Speaker 2I well, I do that anyway, so I don't even need to list it.
Speaker 3But yeah, that's just how I land Lee's gonna try to Lee's got.
Speaker 2I can't wait to see after Scott. You guys do such weird stuff. It's crazy like rewrite the PoH and Well, I'll just put the flaps in at the last five feet, like just so it lands normal, or whatever you guys do oh.
Speaker 3Yeah, you get enough time in a 150 going to grass strip. Not about enough time crank it over, throw those flaps and lots cranked over. You do all kinds of stuff. It's not the PoA, it's cool.
Speaker 2I get all that, but it's be stabilized. What is that like Exactly? Well, that's why you don't have a job at. Tropic Ocean Airways.
Speaker 1It's cuz you guys think like a stabilized approach was, it is, wasn't, it wasn't in his teaching style, but then but it changed though, because I remember later on you said hey, you start talking about this after you have my, I have my private, might even been in my instrument, and you start talking about state, like I found this new thing stabilized approach, stabilized approach. And then that's what everyone was teaching stabilized approach.
Speaker 2I don't know so much that I found it, but the pride like think I mean stabilized just your parallel and ILS, which is pertinent on a Instrument rating yeah it's just difference. I focus so much on safety and being able to manhandle an airplane to get it Do what you want it to do on a private, and the instrument is just more Finesse. I don't know Wow.
Speaker 3Okay, I Just I think it'd be fun. We gotta get. I meant to be at this trip. We'll do it this week. I'm gonna go buy a recorder and get the. So we got the wire for the recorder to keep Scott's plane Always recording. Okay, I just got to go get like a 3.5 millimeter Jack.
Speaker 2Yeah.
Speaker 3Remember record or something from staples if they still sell them or order on Amazon hook up.
Speaker 1You're probably better off going Amazon.
Speaker 3Yeah.
Speaker 2You should.
Speaker 1I got a bachelor party. Go to sorry, I'm driving.
Speaker 3Sunday.
Speaker 1Sunday, sunday I'm flying the islands. I'll be there.
Speaker 2Okay, Sunday Sunday but it's not a 150. Are you a comfortable with that? It's not a sesame 150. You won't know what I like King airs and.
Speaker 1Now, if you could get, let's see if you go on if you go on 60 right 75 if you go on, if you go on Friday, you could do. You can fly the island, so that could be your lesson you can Fly the islands, do the mail.
Speaker 3Okay.
Speaker 1Friday wonderful.
Speaker 3Let's do it, you fantastic.
Speaker 1All right, I'll take Lee, cuz he promised me when he goes oh, you gotta come back with me, we'll fly the mail together. Never saw. You said oh dude, I'll take you to island or we'll do the mail.
Speaker 2Never calls me this was when he was flying. I don't remember any of that. Yeah, it happened.
Speaker 1Let me down.
Speaker 3Yeah, I guess with an app called flight link you can record in flight audio for free. Look into that. I got the kind of setup just a Shouldn't even app. Trying to get Scott Boris to use an app regularly to set it up. I don't know if that'll be good. Does he still have a flip phone?
Speaker 2Oh, no, he's great. We're just a little bit. Just a little bit from a flip phone, yeah where is he?
Speaker 3Yeah, I found five, I think yeah.
Speaker 2I thought, I think that app is probably not supported on the iOS that he's running.
Speaker 3And then yeah, tyler's got another request for Scott flying into Bravo, so somebody's got to do a lesson with Scott Boris flying into Probably Detroit. We determined.
Speaker 2Why? Why Detroit?
Speaker 3we did that one.
Speaker 2Oh, yeah, yeah, he's flying out of Detroit, right, Right it was kind of funny, oh man, oh Cleveland Hopkins. I think Detroit be more it will be so hard for me to just let it, just I don't. I don't know how I would handle that, just letting it just kind of like Letting the controls I can't I can't can't let that happen.
Speaker 3You'd have to like Just has Scott, be like PIC.
Speaker 2Absolutely.
Speaker 3That's the only way not call it a lesson. You're just an informed passenger. Yeah and just at some point you may have to take over as the passenger.
Speaker 1So we should start taking bets. Will they deny? Will they deny, I'm going into the class Bravo, because once he makes that contact and he starts talking, they're like no, we're not letting you turn around, you're not, you're not coming in. You think that's possible?
Speaker 2I.
Speaker 3Just think this would be great audio. I was saying, throw GoPro in there, it's like sure.
Speaker 2Yeah, I know I need. I need to go pro. I always wish I had a GoPro for some of the I.
Speaker 1Had one for a while.
Speaker 2I really want one, but yeah, no, I. They could probably, if they like, get a good read. Like he does not know what's going on, why, why, don't I okay, just that I can't hear. You know why. You see is with my.
Speaker 1I know I had a 360 camera Mm-hmm so then I could see we'd go back and review and you could see where they were looking and you could see where they were Landing. So that was oh, that's a good teaching yeah, yeah, right.
Speaker 2I know you always talked about wanting to do that. Yeah, I did do it. I had finally.
Speaker 1It's sad, it's sad on the, so you would start it.
Speaker 1So if they went out, the solo, especially when they saw, I did almost, I think almost all their solos. So what I would do is, when I got out of the plane on my phone I would turn it on, start recording and it would record onto a SD card and it would just keep going as they were flying. Now that I used to have there was I Think it was called in flight and think it may go pro, bought them out, but this one would actually tell the airspeed, the altitude, all that other stuff, and it was just a straight on like lipstick camera that would record when people were flying. But then I ended up throwing the 360 camera in there. But it would, once you got it down, he would download it and you would just move it. I, you know the the mouse around and it would show. You know, you could see like where they were landing, where they were touching down at, where their eyes were focusing on, so you could see that and then you would also have audio.
Speaker 1So.
Speaker 3Lee says he doesn't look down the runway when he's landing. Really, yeah he says he understands that's how most people do it, but he said he just has never done it that way.
Speaker 2Huh which I found fascinating.
Speaker 3Where do you look? I always look very like, yeah, you look down at the very end, because if you don't let.
Speaker 1You have a tendency to land Like you don't hold it off. So if you're looking too short, you have a tendency to put it down at a greater speed in which you know you could bounce. Or you know or take back. If you pull back too much, you got enough energy that you're gonna go back up in the air anyway. So yeah, if you look down the runway, you have a tendency to be able to let that airspeed you're. You're holding it off and you're able to touch down.
Stalls, Turns, Landings, and Flight Planning
Speaker 3So that's weird he does that I have to ask him about it when he comes back out. All right, catch you up in the chat. Been always set up and only fans for Scott and live stream. Pretty sure that we'll get some lannies. Yeah, one strategy.
Speaker 1Yes, scott could say student pilot with endorsement If he's in. If he's not, because he has a student pilot without endorsement, you can't fly into a Bravo.
Speaker 3Are they gonna ask for the endorsement though?
Speaker 1Well no, if he says student pilot, then they're gonna say why are you doing here? He'd have to say student pilot with endorsement.
Speaker 3Okay, so for him to use yes pilot.
Speaker 1Yeah, if he threw the student pilot out, scott in a Bravo. It came up with that, not without an endorsement, so he'd have to say student pilot with endorsement. You know how he says student pilot all the time yeah, that's what he says.
Speaker 3It was getting a phone number to call. I feel like I.
Speaker 2Don't see how he's not, but I don't know he's got this skill like I mean he can read an altimeter. I mean so as long as he doesn't bust it initially.
Speaker 3Yeah, they're just gonna hate him.
Speaker 2Probably not gonna be happy. Delta hub, spirit hub.
Speaker 3They put the.
Speaker 2Six runways.
Speaker 3Thank you. Thank you, ground crew. Is that's gonna cover the landing fee for that operation? What landing fees are there at Detroit for a single engine system?
Speaker 2if you just do it touch and go, I Don't know if you're gonna get anything. I don't know really Either way. I don't know 50 or $100.
Speaker 3So I feel like that's. We've been talking about it for so long. It's still worth it.
Speaker 2Yeah, I, yeah, I don't know, I think we land.
Speaker 1I did land Detroit last year but I can't remember what the fee was.
Speaker 2Did you touch and go we?
Speaker 3pick someone up signature, signature. Yeah, you know, saratoga.
Speaker 2Like Detroit Metro Okay.
Speaker 1Yeah, I can't remember what the price was.
Speaker 2Well, yeah, I mean so many things from the actual FBO. But if you do a touch and go or a taxi back to us, a Full stop taxi back, and then take off again, I don't know if you're getting a bill, like all the airport use fees people talk about. I don't know. I've never seen one.
Speaker 1No.
Speaker 3Burke Lakefront used to charge five bucks every time.
Speaker 2And they just send it to you in the mail. They look up the registration, send it to you.
Speaker 1Yep, what I touch and go.
Speaker 3No, I was going in there for yeah, I think it's 10 less, no, it's 10. Okay, all right, so walk me through stalls. You know you're gonna reteach me how to do a stall on my my annual flight review, with league riffing and Scott system 150 Landing. I kind of know, jeff can reteach you but he went to.
Speaker 1Scott, he went to you.
Speaker 3We're doing Power on or power off.
Speaker 2I'm the flight review. Yeah, power on, or Typically power off.
Speaker 3Okay, we're just bringing it back till we hear the horn. Bring it back.
Speaker 1No, no, you don't. You don't do the horn now.
Speaker 2Yeah, probably the first sign of a stall.
Speaker 1Yeah, first sign of stall.
Speaker 2It's all about Stole awareness where?
Speaker 1yeah, so they want you to feel the buff at the tail shaking.
Speaker 2They want you to recover before the full on stall so you retain controllability.
Speaker 3Okay, I think that's what I always did with Don anyway.
Speaker 2Yeah, for the most part, we are we're here the stall.
Speaker 3Sometimes he wanted me to. That was more recovery.
Speaker 2Yeah, sometimes it's nice to show get it deep in the stall, but I mean you want to avoid this tall.
Speaker 3Yeah, what else we do in turns around a point you said steep turns, steep turns.
Speaker 2Yeah, just keep that scan going. It's more of a performance from maneuver.
Speaker 3I gotta keep it the same altitude. Yes, that's the hard part of steep turns.
Speaker 2Yes, it is same airspeed. I've done some steep turns.
Speaker 3Not worried about my altitude.
Speaker 2Well, yeah, but you need to maintain the altitude near speed.
Speaker 3I always felt like you could crank it over a lot more if you weren't concerned about the altitude maintaining altitude.
Speaker 2They were saying that you don't look at the runway when you land.
Speaker 3Oh, yeah, yeah. Good, who was saying that?
Speaker 2I was saying that people, people at the other time. No, I look close in, I don't look way down.
Speaker 3Okay, I I still think that's weird.
Speaker 2Well, and maybe it's subjective, how far down do people normally look? Are they looking like at the horizon? Are they looking three thousand three hundred yards down the road or down the runway, like what is down the runway?
Speaker 1I look towards the end.
Speaker 2I don't do that.
Speaker 3I probably look 300 yards ish 3 400.
Speaker 2I just said 3 400 yards yours.
Speaker 3Yeah, like that was so much I know. Yeah, I mean, I'm thinking, you do the same thing I do now.
Speaker 2No maximum, I know. No, I was just throwing that random number out there, which is weird that you kind of doubled down on it.
Speaker 3I was thinking about. You had said in yards, I'm thinking football fields, and then yeah, like three football fields. I'm like, yeah, that's kind of probably what. I do.
Speaker 2So probably not, because when you land at Hind, you don't have that many foot, that many feet to begin with you probably look at the billboard.
Speaker 3I'm looking at the end at the billboard once Wendy Wendy sign was gone, it threw off my Landings ever since. That Wendy sign on route to. That's how I gauge my whole landing structure there and they, they stop. Sponsor in the billboard. Don't use landmarks, everybody.
Speaker 2It's bad idea. Period Anything, anything aviation based other than like navigation that's on a sectional chart. Don't use landmarks.
Speaker 3Is that what a gradient is?
Speaker 2What is he talking about? I don't see it. The last one.
Speaker 3Has a gradient good.
Speaker 2Yeah, absolutely yeah, cuz if you think about it, it's just sending away from you or it's coming up to meet you. Yeah, if it's just sending away from you, those are, those are the hardest you ever landed at Wheeling?
Speaker 1It's almost like it's like a bowl. It's like when you're coming in, when I can't which run away it is, but you come in and it's like you're going downhill. Then you're going uphill at the very end. So that really throws you off.
Speaker 3I saw this runway. It was a jet taken off on Twitter of Burnsville Mountain Airport, which I'd actually spent a few days in Burnsville last year. Buddy's aunt lived there, okay, and it's like the runway is Looks like a wave.
Speaker 2What's the identifier?
Speaker 3I don't know. Look up Burnsville Airport, burnsville what? Burnsville Mountain Airport, I think it was. What state is it in? Oh, north Carolina.
Speaker 1Okay, yeah, sorry, burns always remember going around as a sign of weakness cornetiler.
Speaker 3That's what Scott Boris Scott worse never goes around.
Speaker 2He's not making it tonight.
Speaker 3No, I saw that text message.
Speaker 1Hence the reason your sister is here.
Speaker 3Yes, thank you for filling in Halle.
Speaker 2Yes, thank you.
Speaker 1Not a problem I.
Speaker 3Do need more. I only had one white claw and we're already a A while at me yeah.
Speaker 1I actually have to say I'm surprised that you Advertise that you drink like.
Speaker 3I this is the first time I've ever drank white claw in here, so I thought it was like a monumentous occasion that should have been documented.
Speaker 1You can go grab a mom water.
Speaker 3I do a mom.
Speaker 2I'm a mom. Water no.
Speaker 3I don't need the Nancy anymore today.
Speaker 1She's not like Scott. She's attacking Robin at you, lee.
Speaker 3I know that's easier.
Speaker 1There's more yeah that's true, because you only never got her in the plane to go up in there, you just yeah you know, give her the white board the boring white board.
Speaker 3Yep, all right, you guys hold this down while I mix up a captain coke.
Speaker 2Yeah, dude, or a code and coke, whatever. I'm gonna be quiet here for a second, but I'm I'm getting some.
Speaker 3Okay, hallie can just ask questions about Saturday's lesson or Sunday's lesson.
Speaker 2Sunday's lesson. Okay, what are we starting with?
Speaker 1We are going to start with oh so.
Speaker 3Which island are we going to? Which Do?
Speaker 1they have good beaches. Uh, no beaches. I'm trying to think, oh, kelly's Kelly's has a beach down there. I'm trying to think who has this point in bay? I don't think so.
Speaker 1They have a little bit of one, a little bit of one, but we're not going to see that. We're just going to say here's a male and we're going to unload the mail, and then we're going to go, and then we're going to go to the North Bass and there's going to be like maybe what? Three people live on North Bass and we're going to go to their post office, which is a little.
Speaker 1Which is a shack, which is a shack, and we're going to put mail in the box and then we're going to pick up the mail. Are they like right at the airport? Oh yeah, it's right at the airport.
Speaker 2Yeah, like they get the post office keys.
Speaker 1Yeah.
Speaker 2And you have to open their box like you're a post office person.
Speaker 1You're employee.
Speaker 2And yeah, and you stuff it in, and yeah, Even for Kelly's.
Speaker 1No, no, kelly, someone meets us. Yeah, just North Bass.
Speaker 2North Bass, the only one without a postmaster.
Speaker 1Yep, and that's what we're going to do. But for your lesson we're going to go over. I'm just going to start out. I'm going to show you what, like these are the errands, these are the rudders, this is the flaps, this is kind of what they do. And I'm going to show you the six packs instrument and I'm going to say here's what each one of these instruments do. And then we'll go through. There will be a checklist there and I'm going to go through the checklist and say this is how we start the plane, this is how we go. And then I'm going to say okay, I saw an airspeed. The plane is going to want to lift off and we're just going to go and we're going to pull back. Just grab. It probably trimmed out just enough that it just had 16 knots. It's just going to lift off in there.
Speaker 2So is there anything that I could do to prepare for a first lesson?
Speaker 1Yes, you could get online so the lesson would be in an archer, so you get the whole setup and you could do like some air flying. You could do some chair flying where you just sit there and kind of look over. Okay. Well, this is all timid air, this is what this does, this is what this does, and learn what those items do. Oh, here's my yoke. So what does my yoke do? Well, it works my elevator and it works my ailerons. And then where's my rudders? Well, that's going to be my foot pedals. Well, in the archer, that also on the ground, that's what steers us. It's not the yoke, it's going to be. I don't think there's anything that a yoke steers. Is there what?
Speaker 1do you mean In the jet, does it the jet? The yoke doesn't steer on the ground with it. No, so the rudders for the archer itself, they're going to steer like a diamond 20. You would have brakes, your the brakes steer it, because Swivel front wheel.
Speaker 2Yeah, swivel front wheel Full cast ring front wheel.
Speaker 3Full cast ring front wheel, also known as a swiveling wheel.
Speaker 1Yeah, we're going to go with swivel, just like by annual. So, whatever it really says, we're going to the exact opposite. So, yeah, so you could prepare and then actually, as one of my students I would already have a I would give you a thumb drive that would have a list of like videos and a lesson plan, and then the lesson would say go to this, here's some videos you could watch your first lesson. That would help you, you know. So, whatever lesson I gave you and, like I said, that ASA whiteboard stuff, it would actually have the lesson right out there. I would give you a link on that thumb drive. The link would have articles that you could read that are online, and also videos you can watch.
Speaker 3So that's very professional.
Speaker 2That seems pretty legit A thumb drive. A thumb drive. What do you got? I don't even want to talk now, but no, no, no, but here's the.
Speaker 1here's the story. One man asked me. Another CFI says hey, I got a student that's having trouble with communication. They wanted to use my flight sim that I have, so I'm going to do one better. I went with the Lee communication script that he gave me as a student that I would use with my student. Lee had made up this script that gave you every possible snare. If you're going into a Delta, if you're going into a Charlie, if you're flying from Portland to Sundusky, what you would say and it'd be like this person as a pilot, you would call this off 6, 9, 1, 9 whiskey departing. And this was all done by Lee. So I gave this to another CFI and it still has Lee's communication on it.
Speaker 3Where is this thing? We should do like a whole episode on this. It's got every single possibility.
Speaker 1Well, not everything, but it's the stuff that you're going to need flying in this area and what you're going to say and like it would even have, like if you went to Mansfield. Here's what towers going to say. Here's what you're going to possibly say back to tower, things like that.
Speaker 3Oh yeah, we need to recover this document for a show you know what Lee can, lee can.
Speaker 1I think it's in an email. Oh man, this would be fantastic.
Speaker 3I was going to say we could let Lee update it for a little bit.
Speaker 1But if you've got the raw copy, let's just roll with that live I did it in the format of the old instant messenger.
Speaker 2We had like red and blue for the different people. It did Remember that, yes yes, red and blue for who is talking versus.
Speaker 1This is very creative.
Speaker 2Oh, let me see where I did with that that's the hardest thing we've talked about and highlighted so much. People are afraid to talk to ATC and just this communication is such a hurdle for people and it's like it's just another person. But if you can, if you can get down the expectations, if you could come blazing into somebody's airspace, you're going to have like a don't leave a couple of different correspondences possible, like they're going to clear you in, they're going to tell you not to come in. It's like, and how's that going to go, which I never really addressed. If they don't clear you in, but what's the likelihood of that? If not, you go over there and hold, if that's your destination airport.
Speaker 3Color coded. Oh man, let's do an example. What is that?
Speaker 2Hold on, let me read that before you.
Speaker 1It says Lee's communication. This is from 2010. Wow, oh man.
Speaker 2So I even have the cloud clearance and visibility requirements for class Bravo right there.
Speaker 1See, that's legit Yep man.
Speaker 2You. That's exactly cause this is still 438 Sierra. Yeah, you approach controller, you approach controller.
Speaker 3You.
Speaker 1We've got an official call sign for the show now.
Speaker 3I don't know if you heard that. What's that it says? We're always worried about using bad tail numbers or saying tail numbers. We shouldn't say we have I reserved 151, 151 whiskey whiskey. That's the official tail number of the show.
Speaker 1now All right, let me find one here we can go over Is this what we want to do right now.
Speaker 3You want to go over. I kind of like in this direction Okay.
Speaker 2Which what?
Speaker 1Let me find an easy one, okay.
Speaker 2That's fine, go ahead. People like they're just your brother and Scott included, they don't want to talk to ATC and so, like when you look at the map airspace, you know it's a two dimensional piece of paper that they have to show three dimensional airspace on. So there's like these rings and people go way out of their way and fly around them. When they could fly under them or if they wanted to talk to air traffic control, they could just fly through them. But you have to be confident and and know kind of what you're doing, what the expectations are for everybody, and it would save you a lot of time Potentially.
Speaker 3I've become more comfortable with ATC be the tower airports, so what a good classic.
Speaker 1So when I was learning this, I was still on Sunoski fire department and I would have we were in the ambulance. I remember we're going back to station and I would have someone give someone a script and they would, because as you came in the station it was almost like you were going downwind base Final. So then, like I would call those and they would make sure I was doing it right, you know I would call, I would call out and that it was awfully skipped.
Speaker 3But here's thinking someone on the gurney. Like distract them from their pain, like here.
Speaker 2Here's going into I'm going to Delta.
Speaker 1You, good morning Burke, lakefront Tower. Warrior for three eight Sierra, tower controller this is controller talking out or three eight Sierra, lakefront Tower. You, lakefront Tower were four, three eight Sierra, six miles West, 1800 feet. Vfr inbound information. Romeo were three, three eight Sierra. Proceed inbound. Call two miles out. Call two miles out were three, 38, three eight Sierra. Lakefront Tower were three eight Sierra, two miles West, where three eight Sierra make straight in. Six are apprentices right hand runway clear to land, clear to land. Six Right warrior three eight Sierra. Be mindful of which runway they had cleared you to land, in parentheses, on Tower. Now you're over to get our again. Warrior three eight Sierra, turn right on. Next text remain as frequency say stay parking right. Next Textway, this friction j G a ramp. Warrior three Sierra were three Sierra. Taxi to G ramp via Via textway golf. Like he went in depth and this was a correct. Yeah, this is a Lee original document. I.
Speaker 1Mean should I send it so you can put this up on Jesus please?
Speaker 3don't, you could post. You got an account on it?
ATC Training and App Usage Conversation
Speaker 2No, don't just.
Speaker 1There's so many things good, though that is like I gave that to someone that we should have had.
Speaker 3The last episode where we were doing the ATC stuff.
Speaker 2Yeah, well, that what.
Speaker 3Or two episodes, I wish I could have had that one back.
Speaker 2That was just it's not super practical of what we were trying to do. I mean it was practical. We were trying to do an application, not great. This is just a Very vague template of like the different scenarios that could come up. It's not that hard. That's what I try to. People have all this anxiety about towered fields and whatever. It's the same exchange every time.
Speaker 3But, we should, but how?
Speaker 1but how the script? How the script? They do have apps for that already were well, so that's obsolete.
Speaker 1Yeah, but it wasn't at the time. But no, still it worked out good because, like you give it to your, your wife, girlfriend, whoever, and they could be the part of air traffic control and they had it, they knew what to say, and then you would say it I think it's plain English, is the app where you know, you talk to it and it it'll tell you if you said it correctly or you know. I'm pretty sure that's the app.
Speaker 1But anyway, but with least thing you would get someone, like I said, someone on the ambulance that was driving, not the patient would they would read back you know they would be the part of air traffic controller and that's how I was able to learn and that's that would have been on the thumb drive for your first lesson Would have been okay, and it was actually lesson one, radio communication, something here. Of course you wouldn't be doing radio communication your first few lessons, but Least you'd have something you could study at home and you could practice 100%.
Speaker 2That that was the point. That was the point I mean it doesn't cover every other. Yeah, at the time.
Speaker 1It was not a still good, did you ever use that, like when yeah, I used to with my state. It's in my lesson. It was in my thumb drive for my lesson plans. I would give it to my students.
Speaker 3Okay, so how many students is now then through?
Speaker 1you.
Speaker 2Even and, as a partial, I have achieved immortality.
Speaker 1And don't forget last week another instructor who never even met, lee. Use that with their students.
Speaker 3Oh man, this is.
Speaker 1Legendary legend flight legend.
Speaker 3Yeah right Island's flight legend. Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2Yep, and now I'm afraid of thunderstorms.
Speaker 3Oh man, oh, those are scary.