FAR AIM | Aviation Reg's | Aeronautical Info | FARAIM
Old aviation podcast that records once in awhile for old times' sake.
https://rumble.com/FARAIM
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FAR AIM | Aviation Reg's | Aeronautical Info | FARAIM
#141 | Airplane Hunting: Super Cubs, Huskies, and Life Decisions
The crew returns after a long hiatus to catch up and dive into Lee's journey of airplane shopping, focusing on his decision between an Aviat Husky and a Piper Super Cub.
Watch the unedited livestream of this episode here:
https://rumble.com/v6puyds-far-aim-podcast-aviation-small-airplanes-drinking-ketohol.html?e9s=src_v1_ucp
• Lee explains how he shifted his aircraft mission from family transportation to personal enjoyment
• Detailed comparison between Husky's modern design and better cruise speed versus Super Cub's lighter weight and heritage appeal
• Scott advocates for the humble Cessna 150 as the practical alternative that meets the same basic mission
• Discussion of the emotional aspects of airplane ownership that often override practical considerations
• Lee reveals his final choice: a 90-horsepower Super Cub with no electrical system, weighing just 760 pounds
• Examination of recent aviation accidents including the Blackhawk/CRJ collision and runway incursions
• Safety discussion about treating all propellers as "hot" regardless of ignition switch position
• Debate about whether AI air traffic control could prevent accidents in the future
• The hosts reflect on why NOTAMs have returned to being "Notices to Airmen" rather than "Air Missions"
Scott is drinking his new synthetic alcohol (R 1,3 butanediol) so we'll see how that goes.
The FAR AIM Podcast will continue on an occasional basis - likely quarterly - as the hosts' schedules permit.
Episode title, description, transcript and chapter markers brought to you by AI...
Subscribe to the Rumble channel incase we do another airplane shopping episode... (this potential episode would not show up in this podcast feed (video only)):
https://rumble.com/FARAIM
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Robert started his own rumble channel and is contemplating streaming some flight simulator and IT type content:
https://rumble.com/RobertBerger
Lee is on the fence about starting a personal channel on Rumble and showcasing the flying his newly purchased aircraft. Send him an email if you would like him to do that!
Lee's Email is: FARAIM@LeeGriffing.com
Robert's Email is: FARAIM@RobertBerger.com
Scott's Online Store is: BoresAirParts.com
Welcome to the Far Aim Podcast, this episode. We obviously have not done this in a while and maybe we'll explain later in the show. Get into that a little bit. I don't want to bore people because a lot of people may be listening to this and they're like I never even heard these guys First one I'm listening to. I don't want a backstory about how I'm probably not going to hear any more episodes again, so we'll just get straight into it.
Speaker 1:I don't have the intro music either. We don't have the rights to the music because we're cheap and I stopped paying all the monthly subscriptions. This will be less editing in this one because I don't have the Adobe suite anymore. I stopped paying for that. Yeah, we're just kind of doing this on the cheap, getting at least one out this year. Maybe we'll get a second one, We'll see. We'd like to just randomly do it. We're not hard pressed uh anymore to just get one out every week or every other week like we used to uh, which in a way makes it more enjoyable when we do do them, because yeah, it's not like a job.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it's it. It got feeling like a job a little bit there for a while, yeah and uh. But anyway, this we'll do. Like what's that one guy rogan? He just kind of goes into it, he's got his little doot-a-doot spinny thing and then he just kind of starts talking. So we'll do that, lee. Yes, sir, you are airplane shopping, from what I understand, or? Have been have been aircraft shopping for several months now I think feels like the better part of my life.
Speaker 1:I've been shopping really years, but it was more serious. It took a more serious turn recently and you've basically you narrowed it down between an aviate husky and a piper super cub. Yeah.
Speaker 3:Shockers right yeah.
Speaker 1:We had a few, a lot of discussion actually over the last few months via the text message stream. So we'll just try to pretend like we haven't rehashed that. How did you get down to those two? We'll get that, and then we'll get Scott's opinion afterwards on what he thinks of those two picks as your final two.
Speaker 3:Yeah, I mean boiling it down. You know everybody, it's the mission. You've got to know what your mission is and sometimes just even qualifying that is super hard, as I kind of found, because yes, airplanes are to get you from point A to point B but that's not always your exact mission. You want that nice summer evening or summer morning, fall evening, fall morning, whatever, and so you just try to. I try to just sift through those things as they pertain to me.
Speaker 3:I have a little bit of a mission getting the family to where my wife's family's lake house is, and that is very troublesome to get to. So a people mover kind of made sense and we kind of went through this Cherokee 6 Saratoga concept but then ultimately it came down to it's going to sit most of the year. We got down to what would be fun to fly could fulfill a little bit of a mission as far as getting me there. If I'm at work, the wife and kids are already there Getting me there and it's fun all year round for us to fly. So I don't start to resent it sitting in a hangar in the middle of February. I'm going to be making that payment and I don't want to.
Speaker 1:There was something that, very briefly before, you had narrowed it down to the two that we were talking about, and then we started to look up all the numbers of it and it started to get insane and didn't make sense.
Speaker 3:Do you remember what that was, Scott? There was an airplane that didn't make sense.
Speaker 1:The cost of owning a Cherokee. 6. Of owning a Cherokee 6 or a. Was it a Cherokee?
Speaker 2:6?
Speaker 1:I thought it was something else, but maybe it was the Cherokee 6. It might have been a 172. I don't remember.
Speaker 3:Well, when you start thinking about A 182.
Speaker 1:I don't know, I don't know what it was briefly talked about, but that was way long ago before the numbers yeah before the numbers started to hit the pen to paper.
Speaker 3:Right. Well, that would require having a partner, and then even between the two of us, it did not make anywhere near any financial sense the maintenance costs and the operating costs To purchase it and let it sit there, that's one thing, but once you're actually going to go use it, I mean, it just goes through the roof with the radial engine and the fuel consumption.
Speaker 1:Um, and just the lack 180, weren't we talking like for 50? Seconds about a 180 yeah, that's, that's right it was a cessna 180, yeah, yeah 180 would be a great one.
Speaker 3:Four place, 150 knots and tail wheels would be a little bit of fun. But going out there, you know you, it's heavy enough that you need a tug now or help to push it in and out of the hangar and it just it guzzles some gas. Would it be fun? Yeah, and it would be kind of the perfect airplane all in one. But your costs are high. Um, your initial purchase prices are high, and then your variable costs are all super high too well, we had to go.
Speaker 1:What was kind of the purchase price range?
Speaker 3:there was one for sale for like 190 and it had, if I remember correctly, maybe close to a worn out engine or whatever. But I mean you want to. You're going to be about in the 250 by the time you replace the engine. You're going to, on that particular one, you're going to end up 230 to 250. That's basically a 60,000 installed engine okay and this one needed it.
Speaker 3:So, even though the purchase price was low and somewhat affordable, it was going to need the engine for 50 or 60 grand installed yeah, and then what was the?
Speaker 1:what was the hourly cost on that?
Speaker 3:um, I well, I, I don't, I don't want to pull up my. I'm operating on a 2011 macbook air.
Speaker 1:Okay, so I don't even want to pull it up.
Speaker 3:Okay, let's not crash the stream I remember that when I was factoring in our flight to, uh, the island, uh, where my wife's family's places, um, which was kind of going to be it's a huge component of our mission if we're using an airplane for a mission um, it was like 200 for the round trip and like to take the car and everything across like 35 bucks on the boat. That's a huge disparity.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, yeah you can do round trip to there with a car, with a car for no no, no, well, it's one way.
Speaker 3:So the one way in the 180 was going to be $195 or something like that.
Speaker 1:Oh okay, so you're talking almost $400 round trip.
Speaker 3:Yes, if I remember correctly. Either way, it still proves the point. That might be a little bit off. It may have been $195 for the round trip, 195 for the round trip.
Speaker 1:Still irrelevant, that's a ton of money difference from loading stuff in a car, driving down the boat. That seems way more than kelly's island ferry 35 bucks for a car how much is it, scott? Yeah, that's probably right.
Speaker 3:Okay, I thought it was nine bucks a person plus a car also remember it's twice as far, literally twice as far, okay, yeah, that's why it's a two-hour boat ride.
Speaker 1:It didn't seem as much to me I think it's like more than twice as far, because kelly's is only like a half hour from. Yeah, you're leaving out of sandusky, we're not talking all the way to pelee yeah, well, that's that's true.
Speaker 3:Yeah, you're going marblehead, but yeah, yeah, yeah very prices, irrelevant airplanes.
Speaker 3:So yeah, we started yeah, basically started diverging, like, okay, her schedule, my schedule, and it started to make more sense like, hey, let's maybe alter how we're going to satisfy the mission, utilizing her schedule, her, her work, flexibility. Let you get there with the car, all the stuff we need, and then I'll come and go kind of as I need to, in something small to just hold to me and maybe a little bit of stuff they need, kind of need like supplies, whatever. I'm coming up a couple of days later than they got there. So they ran out of milk, I don't know, and. But then it's also something fun for the rest of the year put it on skis, maybe put it on floats. It would get used on those nice fall evenings, summer evenings, on those nice fall evenings, summer evenings, and that kind of sparked one day and it's kind of like, okay, I can get what I want, we still can do our obligations with changing our schedules a little bit in the summertime and I can get the plane that I want.
Speaker 1:And you can get back to the United States Cleveland area.
Speaker 3:Yeah, yeah, yeah, if you get called in. Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1:You can keep that beautiful yellow uniform on in the back.
Speaker 3:Exactly Always ready to go, always ready to serve.
Speaker 1:Yes, all right. So Aviat. Husky Piper Super Cub Yep, they were similar priced, weren't they Like? Ballpark ranges? Yep, what are those going for these days? For a decent one used.
Speaker 3:Here in the $150,000 to $200,000 range for decent examples of both. Okay, to $200,000 range for decent examples of both. Well, actually I shouldn't say that. For some odd reason, huskies are, depending on how new they are and how they're optioned out and whatever, they can be somewhat affordable. You're in the low 200s. But the one I was looking at I want to say it was like $175,000. But it was a 2005 Husky and I and we can get into the specifics of why a Husky is a Husky and not a super cub. But the super cubs, you know, they're around 200. You can get a good one like a crazy nice one for 250. I'm always trying to look under 200. And then I had these two examples one was about 175, they were both about 175, 180 is the bottom line. Vastly different capabilities, some good, you know some some good in one and some bad in the other.
Speaker 3:It so, and then the decision tree continues from there all right under 200 is where I was looking okay, so price point makes sense.
Speaker 1:It's not crazy different from uh a 180, but no but the operating no, no it's not exactly. It's a lot more right the purchase price exactly is in the same spitting, different spitting distance.
Speaker 3:That's the right and you're getting a lot more airframe cost your value of your airframe in a Super Cub, which I don't know. That it makes sense to me because you can open up a catalog and basically build a Super Cub from scratch. But for some odd reason you know those engines you can go get a brand new firewall forward for like $30,000. Call maybe $35,000 installed.
Speaker 1:So half the price for the firewall forward on the super cub really versus versus a 180 yeah, yeah, I guess that's probably true yeah, a four-cylinder, you're talking 60, 70 000 for file for the 180 for the 180, yep, yep, and 35 installed, probably for the super cub.
Speaker 3:Um, so that's a big difference. So all that tells me is it doesn't make sense. But all that tells me. If I can very accurately quantify a firewall forward cost, the rest has to be airframe cost. Yeah, and it doesn't make sense to me. The parts availability for Super Cubs is insane. There's a bunch of companies making that are PMA parts manufacturing approval for Super Cubs. You can go to any number of sources and build one from scratch. Basically, as long as you have, like, the data tag in all the certified and that's FAA stuff, but they're well supported, faa stuff, but they're well supported. But for some odd reason, the airframe cost that's the only deductive thing that I can come up with is the airframe cost in a Super Cub is higher than a 180, which blows my mind.
Speaker 1:What about a Husky?
Speaker 3:So Huskies, for some odd reason, their value, their airframe value, is. I don't want to say that it doesn't retain its value as well, but it is certainly not as sought after an airframe as a Super Cub is. It's heavier, it's better. In a lot of ways. They had time to kind of leapfrog off the back of all the work that people are doing in the field, in alaska, bush, flying all the most popular mods people were doing at rebuilds, recovers, they were incorporating when they built the airplane, when they designed the airplane, and uh, and so I think that that's cool in that regard and for somebody like me, a husky would be a really good fit Because of the performance yeah, the performance.
Speaker 3:I don't need to extract every ounce of performance here. We don't have mountains, we don't have hills and things like that, and I'm not going to go land on a gravel bar. That's just not me. I think it's cool, I love watching that stuff and I really appreciate the guys who have the skill and the ability to do that to scout the area, make sure it's going to be safe, to do it and then go do it.
Speaker 3:I could watch that stuff forever on YouTube or whatever. That's just not me, like, let's be realistic, but can you have kind of pretend bush flying and will the Husky do everything that I need it to do? Yeah, the big advantage in my opinion in the husky do everything that I need it to do. Yeah, the big advantage in my opinion, in the husky is when it's time to pack up and go home and you've had your fun doing your pretend bush fly at this, you know shorter, manic, well manicured grass strip. When you're done doing that, you can do 140 miles an hour to get home, not 80 miles an hour which is convenient which is very convenient.
Speaker 3:Yeah, I mean you got some real legs on a husky that no super cub really is gonna no super cub is gonna touch then why go with the super cub?
Speaker 1:what? Why do people go with super cub then?
Speaker 3:well in in. They're very light. Um, do they have some drawbacks? You know the cabin is tighter. They don't have unless you've modified it. You don't have an external baggage door. So these things that I'm listing are kind of things that the Husky already has baked into the cake. When they come off the assembly line, an external baggage door, they have the same baggage weight limit in about the same spot. Much more accessible with an external baggage door and a cub, get a lean over the back seat to do it. And if you've ever tried to reach into a cub, there's just it's just awkward, to say the least. So a popular mod is to do that. External baggage door. Husky's already got that.
Speaker 3:But, uh, the the drawbacks with the super cub. Um, you don't have the speed and because you don't have the speed you just don't have the range. You have to add a lot of fuel to end up equaling the range the husky already has. Because it has a lot of, it has more fuel capacity out of the gate, but then it's also faster too. So those two components really stretch the range in a husky to make it a little bit more practical.
Speaker 3:For the a to b concept, the super cub Cub though it's light. It's light. It has a very low stall speed. Part of that is a byproduct of being so light. The airfoil doesn't have to work as hard to keep it in the air because it doesn't have to create the pounds of lift. It's just simple kind of math and that can get you places If you keep it light. You're always going to school a husky Keep light with the right prop and things like that. If it's apples to apples, you can be the super comes going to come out on top. It's just not going to win any races.
Speaker 1:So in your example, your main mission getting out to the island on Lake Erie is you don't need a lot of that Like the performance stuff Would it be nice to have, yeah, but it's not really a requirement for your main requirement of the airplane which helps in that decision.
Speaker 3:Yeah, it does help you, kind of sort through it a little bit and give you a little bit more direction.
Speaker 1:Scott Husky Super Cub. Is that what Lee should have fallen on, or should?
Speaker 2:he have gone in a different route.
Speaker 1:No, I'd go Cessna 150.
Speaker 2:Yeah really why.
Speaker 1:It really does check all the boxes?
Speaker 3:please tell yeah, inform me where I went wrong it has two seats yep check it's gonna go anywhere same as both of those, yep, it's gonna go anywhere.
Speaker 1:you would go in those. Where are you gonna go in those that you can't go in? A 150. Similar speed to the Super Cub, not as fast as a Husky. Yep, yep. And a tiny fraction of the price. What are 150s going for? Like good examples these days, scott, I don't know. I haven't looked lately, but I would imagine like 30 to 40. I don't know. I feel like they were more than that when Lee and I were looking them up a year and a half ago. Well, your guys' airplanes and my airplanes are different types of things. How so? Because Lee would never even consider buying the 150 that I have.
Speaker 2:No.
Speaker 1:I wouldn't either, though. So when I say 35, I assume I would have guessed that mine's probably worth $35.
Speaker 3:Okay, so now picture a nice one. Then if yours is worth $35.
Speaker 1:So maybe you're looking more like $45.
Speaker 3:$45, $50, I think, all day long.
Speaker 1:Yeah, for a nice paint job with a low mid-time engine. You're probably looking at 45, 50. Yeah there's an abundance of 150s with low airframe time. I've seen that a lot.
Speaker 3:Yeah, and that's getting harder. And a 152, you're just not going to find, Even though the 152 to me is more desirable you're not finding the flow time. You want the 40 degrees of flaps. I want the 40 degrees of flaps. I want the 40 degrees of flaps.
Speaker 1:Oh, I love the 40 degrees of flaps it makes me look good on so many occasions 50 feet
Speaker 3:just put them in you can fix a terrible, terrible approach.
Speaker 1:You can fix an overshot runway in just like that.
Speaker 2:Three seconds.
Speaker 3:Anyway, why are you overshooting the runway?
Speaker 2:how did you get yourself in that situation?
Speaker 3:because I fly like once a year, yeah I haven't seen either one of you be close to overshooting the runway ever no, because I have 40 degrees of flaps. I don't know well, I guess I I don't really remember how often you've used the 40 degrees of flaps when I've flown with you. Oh, I don't know Well, I guess I don't really remember how often you've used the 40 degrees of flaps when I've flown with you.
Speaker 1:Oh, I don't know. Unless it was a bitching crosswind, I'd always throw it in because I thought it was fun.
Speaker 3:It seems every time Scott and I go fly there is a bitching crosswind though.
Speaker 1:Yeah, you can only do like 10 or 20 if you got that going on or like gusty conditions and stuff you got to pull the. You can only go so high. But yeah, on most days where it's perfect that Scott's flying. With zero wind, zero anything, there's no reason not to use 40. Right, and I like to maintain gliding distance to the runway throughout the pattern.
Speaker 1:I agree you should, yeah, Scott have you ever added 40, gone from 30 degrees to 40 degrees in the middle of a flare and ground effect? Oh yeah, I'm sure I have. Have you ever gone?
Speaker 3:from 30 to 40 and then back to 30, like on final at some point.
Speaker 1:No, I just add power.
Speaker 3:Okay, gotcha, okay, I'm just curious.
Speaker 1:No, never take flap out, I just add power, okay. Yeah, gotcha. Okay, just kidding, I was just curious. No, never take flap out, I just add power, okay, so let's. So you're getting a, you're getting a plane. You understand, lee, and a little bit my concept. Let's focus on kind of Lee's vision, and you know that's not acceptable. What, what are? Name some other aircraft besides those two?
Speaker 3:well, a cessna 150 tim is just too, I mean it's just too basic it's too basic. It doesn't excite me like I would rather not fly.
Speaker 1:I owned it loved it for years had I kept the one I had.
Speaker 3:I regret selling it, but you know, yeah, you had a, yeah, you had a great one.
Speaker 1:That's. That's in the past and I just I have no interest in going back to 150 I don't blame you for the commuting aspect.
Speaker 3:You know, like you going to work back and forth in the 150 and and, uh, like other individuals, we know that basically commute kind of with a 150. I totally get it. I totally get it, and scott is not wrong. Like okay, dummy, you're gonna have two seats, you're gonna do about 100 miles an hour. Why not spend 45 grand on a nice 150? Yeah I get it. It's never gonna get flown. It's just, it's never gonna get flown 150 is still fun to fly. No yeah, how often do you fly, yours, scott, you're.
Speaker 1:You're a dreaming example of how often you fly a 150 when you own one. Yeah, like once a year at least. Yeah, I always make sure to fly you're saying how awesome it is to fly and how great it is to own a 150. Use it once a year. I could own the most fun plane in the world to fly and I would fly it once a year. I don't. I don't know if you if you don't know if you had a
Speaker 1:if you had a super cub it or a husky in your hangar and you were proficient in it. You might walk over to it once in a while and fly it.
Speaker 2:If I was proficient in the 150,.
Speaker 1:I would fly it more, okay. Well then, we got to work on that, yeah.
Speaker 3:But it just seems like if you fly it more, you are more proficient. Yeah, I'm not even proficient enough to go fly it.
Speaker 1:I need a flight review. I'm not even current, it's a biannual.
Speaker 2:A biannual.
Speaker 3:The old biannual, there was an article.
Speaker 1:I got magazines for show prep and I forgot to put the Post-it notes where they are. So I forget why, but I know somewhere in these magazines the article may as well have been titled why Lee Griffin is Wrong and Robert and Scott are Right.
Speaker 3:as well have been titled why lee griffing is wrong and robert and scott are right yeah, and I couldn't find it weird that you forgot to put that sticky note in there. I know they didn't.
Speaker 1:I didn't title it basically yeah, that's what they could have named it well, well, okay, back to this 150 thing.
Speaker 3:I totally, and I almost feel I feel terrible, even saying this out loud to anybody else. I looked at piper tomahawks, the old t-tail trainer side by side, like big bubble window kind of thing, and just to see like, what was out there, what type? Because, like you brought up the 150s, the 152s, super high total time, an airplane that satisfied the same role in general aviation uh, just a trainer, not good for anything else, about 100 knots, uh, cramped cockpit, all that stuff. You can find it. There's not that, there was not that many made. They're only made for a few years and they not nearly like 150 or 152.
Speaker 3:They just never quit making those things by comparison yeah and you can get some decent, decent airframe times four thousand four thousand five thousand hour airframes with a lycoming o235 like whatever 115, 118 horsepower, whatever they were for those um, and but they were in the 40s and 50s and it's like that excites me more than a 150 does.
Speaker 1:But why?
Speaker 3:Well, only because I've never flown one, but only because of what I've been told. I was always told that some of the characteristics that were somewhat built into the design of the Tomahawk you had to use your feet a lot more. There's more adverse yaw, so you had to use your feet more, and things like that.
Speaker 1:I always heard they were harder to fly. That sounds like a reason Scott wouldn't like it Right and that's the reason you like it.
Speaker 3:And I guess in a sense, I mean I didn't. You know, I'm not trying to make it that way, but yeah, that, that that excited. And the Piper, you know what I mean. I'm just, you're a Piper guy, I am, and it just just it's hard to say I'm going to go get the cessna. It's just, if you're looking at like you're doing the points tally, I mean they're already at a minus three before you even get down anywhere down the sheet. That's just the way it is. The cessna 180 is maybe a minus one, but it still is a minus one. It just is. I don't know why. Just because it's a why.
Speaker 1:Just because it's a. Cessna, just because it's a Cessna Piper's a couple hours north of me. Lee, we got to go drop the Griffin name sometime and get a tour.
Speaker 3:Yeah, I don't know. Yeah, I don't know. Nobody working there now even remembers, I'm sure. Okay, but I've toured that factory a couple times in Vero Beach.
Speaker 1:Oh, have you, yeah, I have not.
Speaker 3:Yeah, you should, you should, if they're still even doing tours.
Speaker 1:Okay. So why didn't you go with? Is that because it's not a Piper? Why didn't you go with that?
Speaker 3:The Piper Tomahawk. Yeah, it is. Oh, never mind Duh, yeah, yeah, so Wrong.
Speaker 1:Why didn't you go with that? I should say I was.
Speaker 3:Why? Ultimately, I just feel like it got me back to what that is to. It is all the Husky and the Super Cub were, in terms of it's only two seats. So that's a negative for me. Only two seats is a negative, but it didn't have the redeeming attributes that the Husky and the Super Cub do have the fun to fly, although being a little more challenging, whatever. That would be cool in its own right, and you don't see that many of them, but that's not enough to get me on a nice day. When I wake up in the morning and run to the window, I'm not going to be like, oh, my tomahawk's waiting for me. I'm not going to do that, but I am going to be with one of the tail wheel, things like that.
Speaker 1:Scott, you don't look out your window and see oh, my 150 is waiting for me, it's waiting for me, one of these other 150s is waiting for me to chop it up. Scott can actually go run to his plane if he felt that way, giddy and he doesn't skip.
Speaker 3:He'd be skipping. He's not walking anywhere. Scott, when's the last time you skipped to your hangar. I don't know that I ever skipped to my hangar.
Speaker 2:When was the last time you did anything other than drive the golf cart?
Speaker 1:Yeah, okay, sometimes I walk, but I usually take the golf cart or sometimes I take the truck if I have a reason to. I see. But I usually golf cart or walk. It's right there, it's like probably like 500 feet.
Speaker 1:Tyler's saying you sometimes stumble to your golf cart. Sometimes, yeah, not as much anymore, but yeah, summertime Dan said he deleted his Rumble account and now he has to watch 20 minutes of ads before he gets to hear us. I didn't know that I paid $10 this month to Rumble. I thought it was supposed to not make the ads come across.
Speaker 3:I have a Rumble account. There's a limited Rumble Premium. Yeah, I think you still get limited ads.
Speaker 1:Well, I have Rumble Premium and Pro the Premium's like $100 a year, I think okay, and then the pro is like I figured out the bandwidth to actually do the live stream anyway, yep, uh where were we airplanes?
Speaker 3:right?
Speaker 1:yeah, I think so yeah, something about so redeeming qualities.
Speaker 3:Yes, tomahawk had none. None, yeah, none. Piper, it said Piper on the side.
Speaker 2:What about?
Speaker 3:affordability.
Speaker 1:And low operating costs.
Speaker 3:Yeah, I mean it's back to what Scott was saying with the low operating costs of the 150. A little bit more stick and rudder, I'm told.
Speaker 1:I've never flown one, but that's what I'm told. I haven't flown one either.
Speaker 2:Yeah, most people haven't.
Speaker 1:I wouldn't say what about a 150-150 with a stole kit?
Speaker 3:I mean you are getting closer right. Yeah, you're right there.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I mean you're yeah A 150-150 with a stole kit on it. What can't you do with that? We've talked about this before and that's always seemed like a very interesting airplane. But lee pointed out on one episode that it might take away that sports car feeling with all that extra weight out front, which I don't know if it's true. I've never even I've never flown, I've never spoken to anybody that's even flown one, but it would make sense that it would. Yeah, there's too much.
Speaker 3:You got a much bigger engine out there. You got a much bigger prop out there. You know, I mean you're, you're going from think about this you're going from a, a, um, a 69 inch diameter prop to a 74 inch diameter, which, yeah, okay, whatever, who knows what that is in pounds? Right, but um, when you think about it's got to be wider all the way out and it's just the proportions, I mean you're probably adding hell, I don't know. You're probably adding eight pounds right on the nose.
Speaker 1:Between those two concepts, it makes me wonder because because I feel like it it might be like a 172 at that point, which is a dog to fly compared to the 150 I always, yeah, I always hated running 172s. I still don't like it to this day because it's, it's just, it's like so dog, like compared to the 150 just because of the handling characteristics.
Speaker 3:Yeah, the handling of it well, and it's probably honestly worse than the 150. 150 is probably worse, to be honest with you, it was not. I mean, obviously it is so light and enjoyable to fly with the way it is now. I mean it's very possible to me that it's worse than a 172 is you don't have any of that metal behind you. You know what I mean. You got no extended bag. You got no baggage compartment. There's a lot of metal behind you in a 172 to help it be about as balanced as it can be.
Speaker 3:But I know from like in a in the Cherokee series after 79, they move the batteries from underneath the back seat to up on the firewall and yeah, I mean that's 30 pounds but that's a huge shift in where that, the moment right, you're moving it way further forward from a cg perspective. So when you're solo and you're not, you know you're not putting anything in the back to help counteract that that battery move. That 30 pound battery weight, um, it's, I mean it's a noticeable difference in those airplanes like noticeable, I mean I've flown them both a lot so maybe I can feel it a little bit more than somebody just renting an airplane. But yeah, I mean by comparison the 1980s and on, they fly a lot worse than the 79. That's why I think 79 is kind of the golden year for all those Cherokee series airplanes for that reason, because they're so balanced when you're flying them solo.
Speaker 1:I'll be right back. Yeah, go for it.
Speaker 3:So I don't know if you want to say you pretty much narrowed it down. Yeah, on what you want. Yeah, okay, I mean, are we?
Speaker 1:If you're comfortable, Sharon.
Speaker 3:Oh yeah, no, no, I just want to make sure.
Speaker 1:I just wondered if anybody else I don't want to spill any beans.
Speaker 3:I don't want to spill your beans. If you want to spill your own beans. Well, I wish there was more activity in the chat so people could weigh in what they think. That maybe I did Okay.
Speaker 1:So chat, we got to get a guess and then maybe Lee will tell us if you're right or not. Super cub or husky, what did lee decide to go with?
Speaker 3:yeah, there we go, we can leave that hang for a little bit. I mean, scott raises, I mean a great point for everybody else making these decisions. And maybe I'm a little bit different in just I've flown a lot of things and I've flown a lot of GA and I still fly for a living. So when I'm not flying for a living, I want something as different from that as possible. The tricycle gear, that's pretty much, unless it way satisfies the mission and I can grow with it kind of. And that's what the Cherokee 6 did have a lot of merit for us.
Speaker 3:But ultimately we started to realize well, there's the weekends where I'm not even gonna be able to go at all. My wife's still gonna want to go. So the plane sets all winter long the planes gonna sit and Then when we do use it, more operating cost is pretty high. Will it be awesome? When we're actually flying it to the island, when we load up all of our stuff, our dog and kids and whatever, and we go, I'm be like, yeah, this is what's, but all winter long I'm going to be pissed that I'm making that payment, I'm paying that hangar rent, and that's really where I really diverted and was like we got to get something fun and we'll figure out. We have other airplanes to use. We can always rent. We can take the boat. There are other remedies for getting people where we want to go, but for the fun it's just such a what I consider to be fun, very narrow uh segment.
Speaker 1:You're just too picky you're too picky, we got we got some uh. We got some couple people weighed in uh in the chat here.
Speaker 2:Okay, francis and Stuart.
Speaker 3:Let's see if Tyler will.
Speaker 1:Is Tyler here? What's Tyler guessing? Yeah?
Speaker 3:They're the only ones active, so let's see. So all right. So Dan's Dan saying Super Cub, Francis saying Husky. Let's see if we can get Tyler to weigh in.
Speaker 1:Where's Dan? I don't see Dan.
Speaker 3:Isn't that the? Stewart, that's Stewart Out in Hawaii, oh yeah, oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, oh, yeah, yeah. So Stewart's saying Super Cub.
Speaker 1:All right. Scott you know what, you know the answer. So you can't participate. Oh, yeah, unless you just ignored the group chat the last week.
Speaker 3:He may have. Honestly, I think he tunes me out.
Speaker 1:I know, Unless I tag it. You got it on mute. You put Lee and I on mute. He's like we're not doing this podcast thing anymore.
Speaker 2:I know what the answer is I check it every once in a while, you guys.
Speaker 1:I work all day. You guys are playing around on the group message. Lee and I take a lunch. This guy's like these guys don't do any work, right? You guys are screwing around all day. I work from 5 am to 9 pm every day, okay, okay. So all right, tyler must be sleeping must be.
Speaker 3:Yeah, well, he's west coast time, I don't know, yeah. So I went with a. So it's a little left field, so it is a super cub. But I went with a. I found a. I was about to go see a high-horsepower, highly-modified Super Cub. So I'm talking to somebody that I trust their opinion. They've flown all of these airplanes and he's like well, I know where there's a really nice 90-horsepower Super Cub. I'm like that's exactly what I need no Neptune, neptune, neptune, king Neptune, coming in.
Speaker 1:No, neptune, neptune, Neptune, king Neptune, coming in for the good advice.
Speaker 3:Yes, oh well, you can always rely on him. He just gets my perspective on and you know it's like you guys, like you kind of know what I'm after. You may have differing opinions, but you get it what I am kind of after and I can take your advice to heart, like when we're of after, and I can take your advice to heart like when we're being serious. I can take your advice to heart that you'll try and steer me in like what you truly believe will be the best thing for what I am trying to do. And I knew that I could count on him for this as well. So he told me about this 90 horsepower one which, back to scott's point, that brings our operating way down. I mean like less than Cessna 150 operating cost.
Speaker 1:Man, scott, you're getting hosed on your 150 idea here, but how much performance are you losing on that 90 horse? It's still going to smoke the 150 by a lot yeah. By a lot, dude. But what are you going to do? What are you going to do? 150? By a lot, yeah, no, by a lot, dude. Well, I mean, but what are you going to do? What are you going to do that I can't do A lot Tell me If I chose to. Have people come over and look at his airplane on?
Speaker 3:the ramp. That's true. That is step one yeah, somebody not be afraid to fly in it. There's that. That is step one. Yeah, somebody not be afraid to fly in it. There's that. But it's a very light example. It weighs about 760 empty weight, so incredibly light, and with me in it half tanks. I mean I am anxious to see how shortly I can land to take off in this thing yeah um, it's got a great.
Speaker 3:This particular plane has a great pedigree. I mean it's just I can't, I can't wait, but back to the bottom line, 90 mile an hour, cruise, five gallons an hour and I mean, do the annual in a couple hours.
Speaker 3:Yeah, Not that a 150 is much more than that. But I don't have electric flaps. There's no electrical system at all. There's no electric flaps to worry about. There's no flat motor, there's no. You know, you don't hardly need to take out any screws to swing inspection panels. I mean just so many things, little things like that that add up. But obviously it would take forever to recoup the difference in purchase price which I totally get.
Speaker 3:What's the purchase price on the 90 horse 90 grand, 90 grand, 90 grand yeah for this one, and I mean you can get, if you do, a little bit of a later model with electric and stuff, which to somebody is probably more desirable. Me, I want a hand prop. I don't want to have like, I don't want that adsb nonsense. I don't want to have to deal with any of that. I want.
Speaker 1:Basically, you don't have a starter no starter oh, you gotta have a starter no, no paperweight man oh man, this thing was 760 empty dude yeah, I mean that's light, I think our j3.
Speaker 3:It says 699 on the paperwork. There is no way it has got to be 730. 740 would be my guess. So I mean, this is a super cub, so a lot more power. Everything was wrong. Got a 50 pound baggage compartment, not like a 12 pound or 20 pound little hat shelf thing, it's just solo from the front. You got heat for the winter time. All the things that were wrong with the Super Cub or on this J3.
Speaker 2:Cub are fixed on this one.
Speaker 3:So it was this particular one. Has a phenomenal pedigree, been well maintained for years, recently restored 40 hours on the engine oh, wow yeah. I mean it's for years. Recently restored 40 hours on the engine. Oh wow, yeah, I mean, it just fell into my lap.
Speaker 1:I'm excited to go for a ride in it this summer.
Speaker 3:Dude. Oh, I can't wait to get it home, so hopefully it'll be home in the next couple weeks.
Speaker 1:Okay, nice, yeah, yeah, congrats on that.
Speaker 3:Yeah thanks. Just got to wait for the weather to get good to bring it home. Sweet yeah, yeah. So it's not exactly the true Super Cub that everybody's thinking 150 horsepower with big tons of tires. It's not like that, but it is still obviously a Super Cub.
Speaker 1:I think the Super Cubs will hold their value more. That's anecdotally, I don't know. Maybe somebody's done analysis on it they probably will.
Speaker 2:I just think it'll hold, no, you better and go up in value more than a husky would, or a lot of things would, no doubt, no doubt it's more.
Speaker 1:I don't know how you quantify this, but to me it's just more of an heirloom aircraft like you, you would never be tempted really to sell no, you're at your versus a Husky, because you're right. Maybe you get something else and keep that in the back corner of the hangar.
Speaker 3:Exactly, yeah, and that's so interesting. You've hit on all like the emotional aspect of it and you're dead nuts on and I don't know. Like you said, I don't know how to qualify it either, but there's just something about it where that Husky, it just has a different connotation, it just gets more, it gets something different out of you. Yeah, mission-oriented, it can go fast, it can go far, it can do most, it would do everything that I'm going to do with it, to Scott's point but just like a 150 would. But it just doesn't get any. It doesn't get the same emotions but the rawness, for some odd reason, of the super cub does. And then this is in a sense more docile and whatever, because it is such a watered down version. It's the original, you know. It's low horsepower, low weight, doesn't hold much fuel, doesn't have an electrical system, but it still does. It's everything. A J3 isn't without that crazy price tag of the $250,000. The entry price is a lot lower. What do you think of that, scott?
Speaker 1:I support that. I mean, I I wouldn't spend 90 000 on an airplane, but that's just me, because I don't fly enough to justify it. But you have a free place to keep it though, scott.
Speaker 2:Well not free, but like I have a property now that I don't fly you paid for the building and everything.
Speaker 1:Yeah, but compared to other, people, it's easy for you to have a, yeah, have a plane, yeah, um, yeah, I just, I love the super cub I was on. I was on team super cub during the, the weeks of texting back and forth the whole time, you never wavered I never, and I tried to get you to go the other way, but no I'm not against the the husky.
Speaker 1:I think for a lot of people, uh, it would be the obvious choice, um, just for depending on their, their like, if they had a mission where you needed some of that performance that the husky has, some of the speed, some of the if you needed an ifr certified aircraft huskies can be certified that super cubs. You can't get ifr certified. There's a lot of upside of the of the husky, but unless you need that stuff, super cubs is so much cooler you didn't like the dog on the tail either?
Speaker 1:no, no, I used to, and then I got over it. It was cool to me at first, and now I see photos and it bothers me a little bit. I don't know why.
Speaker 3:Well, and we talked about that, those are super vain, as that type of stuff sounds Even like we talk about the radio call. Do you want to be saying Husky over the radio, or do you want to be saying Super Cub, super Cub sounds call.
Speaker 1:Do you want to be saying husky over the?
Speaker 3:radio you want to be saying super cup, and now I have radio, so I'm not saying any of it anyways, but yeah what are you gonna do about a radio? I'm gonna have to be creative.
Speaker 1:They have a hardwired push a talk on the stick. Wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, hold on no electrical system. How are?
Speaker 3:you gonna go?
Speaker 1:to canada with it okay, but but why?
Speaker 3:what are you getting at?
Speaker 1:I thought part of the mission was so you could go to peely okay, so you literally were probably not listening to hardly anything.
Speaker 3:I said this whole time I was listening. Well, no, we deviated the mission the part of the mission barely so that you could meet up with them at pelee, but that is a very, very minor.
Speaker 1:And then, if you get called you, can throw your yellow uniform on with your epaulets, because you look so good in yellow now your yellow uniform and fly it to go do your day job.
Speaker 3:Right, we don't wear yellow uniforms, you look great in yellow. Well, I do look good in yellow. No, Scott, we're going to do other things. We're going to use other airplanes, or they're going to take the boat.
Speaker 1:I know them, but you said you wanted to be able to meet up with them. So can this airplane not go to Canada.
Speaker 3:No, it cannot go to Canada. Why can't it go to Canada?
Speaker 1:Because you don't have an electrical system.
Speaker 3:Why do I need an electrical system so you can't put ADS-B in it, if you don't have ADS-B, you can't go to.
Speaker 2:Canada. It doesn't need it if it was not originally certified with an electrical system.
Speaker 3:Yes, oh, so you can go to Canada.
Speaker 1:Yes, of course, I can go to height okay. So what you do and I probably won't do this most of the time, but what you do, well, I really fly really low over the water and pretend to be a boat exactly exactly um low and slow, they'll just think you're a boat yeah yeah, it is yeah, it is basically that fast throw tightly wrapped packages out while you're going, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 3:You have to call the controlling air traffic control facility and tell them your estimated time of border crossing. Estimated time and position of border crossing.
Speaker 1:And then what kind? Of how accurate do you have to be? Do you have to be like precise or like live stream, starting precise?
Speaker 3:Well, I'm hoping it's closer to live stream, starting precise.
Speaker 1:It's a lot of a lot of leeway.
Speaker 3:Yeah, well, I mean, luckily it's such a short flight that how far off could I be? Yeah, you know what I mean. Well, I mean I know there's a huge, probably huge window, depending on the wind, especially with something so slow. I'm definitely going to figure that out before I go do it. But also, yes, this would be kind of an emergency raft to get me there to meet up with them, so they didn't have to wait for me. But then that opens a whole can of worms. There's no hangers there, there's barely tie downs.
Speaker 3:So I have like kind of my pride and joy sitting out there over the weekend and a storm rolls through and hail, and it's just, you don't get any rest that way. Bunch of drunks driving by in golf carts. Well, yeah, kind of. I mean, yeah, it's a dirt road there. So I mean you're not lying there, but there's a. It's a dirt road in the way the wind is. A lot of times it blows the dust like right over all the airplanes and they just get caked. And then it's like, well, I got to be able to see out the frickin windshield. So like, how do I clean the windshield without scratching it? You?
Speaker 2:don't have anything there.
Speaker 3:Yeah, that's still going to do with the amount of dust I'm talking about. I'm not talking about a fine, Dude. No, you've got to rinse it with water. I mean, we're talking the amount of caked-on dirt as if it was in a barn for five years.
Speaker 1:ShamWow.
Speaker 3:ShamWow, yeah, maybe, yeah, yeah, whatever You're getting there, you're getting there Windex. So those are the things Not Windex. You're getting there, you're getting there Windex. So those are the Not Windex.
Speaker 1:So you're not taking it to Peely anymore. Well, I will, but I'm going to be very selective.
Speaker 3:It's not going to be. Yeah, scott, that was stupid. That was just stupid. No, why don't you get that little?
Speaker 1:It'll be minimal you can order those big things where youed on it, it's got zippers. You could spend 45 minutes adjusting zippers and get that thing.
Speaker 2:It's basically a hanger. It's basically a hanger.
Speaker 3:Yeah, well, I mean I would do if I was going to make a big plan and have it there. There are a couple companies Bruce's Custom Covers they make all the covers you're talking about and they have ones that have hail protection so that they have like foam on the top, you know, so that it can help with some hail, obviously golf or softball size, probably not going to do a lot, but for most hail you're going to get it'd probably be good and that would give me some peace of mind.
Speaker 1:Glass beer bottles from Drunk Canadians Glass beer bottles.
Speaker 3:Yeah, yeah, yeah, okay. And then there's another one I want to say maybe Alaskan, alaska wing covers or Alaska covers I could look it up, but I guess they're not promoting us. But they're another one that I found and they will custom make different widths of different densities of padding and they're infinitely customizable, which I really liked, that aspect of it. So if I was going to have it up there you know and do that and not and worry minimally I would definitely invest in those covers, but I I'd be very selective when I take it up and then I'll come up with a alternate plan to get up there, if that's what it comes to for me and those.
Speaker 1:There's no milk jugs in this flight profile, as they're pointing out in the chat.
Speaker 3:Well, we yeah well, we didn't get there yet we didn't get there.
Speaker 1:I definitely throw some in the back, just in case you go down over the lake yeah, yeah.
Speaker 3:Well, since I'll be going by myself too, I'll have extra room instead of the passenger you. I can put the milk jugs there Throw three or four of them back there. Why not? Absolutely. You can never be too safe when you go down.
Speaker 1:a couple of them might fall out and float away. You might as well have some extras.
Speaker 3:Yeah, well, I mean, that's why they'll be tied around my waist the whole time. Yeah.
Speaker 1:I usually just throw them in the back and I figure I'll grab them after oh, you don't wear them the whole time you're flying.
Speaker 3:That's weird.
Speaker 1:No, no, I just grab them afterwards.
Speaker 3:Or I like to be ready.
Speaker 1:On the way down, I'd probably, you know, maybe stuff it under my shirt or something.
Speaker 3:Oh, yeah, yeah, I like that.
Speaker 1:That's basically Check it Scott are you feeling this synthetic alcohol? Yet the ketones? Maybe a little bit, I don't know.
Speaker 2:Ketanol.
Speaker 1:How many have you had? Just one, okay.
Speaker 3:But it's 33. It's two ounces of 33% alcohol.
Speaker 1:Get another one going, see if it actually gets you ready. This was my last one, oh no, that's last one.
Speaker 2:Oh no, that's the problem.
Speaker 3:Oh.
Speaker 1:God, you got to go grab a beer or something then Go grab a beer.
Speaker 3:Dude, I'm on my. I don't have any beer. I'm on my third beer, right here we got 40 minutes to go before your bedtime, scott.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, we're ahead of schedule.
Speaker 3:Yeah, I mean phenomenal. I'm liking this. That's good we got. There's other stuff that I wanted to cover too, so okay, go for it. Have we sufficiently? I've got. I've got a magazine to like the highlights in it. I got a magazine highlights in it.
Speaker 1:But if you got other stuff, we can save this till next time. This is not often we have this, so we could save this if. If we don't get to it, I'm okay with it.
Speaker 3:Well, I guess the first thing that I wanted to talk about is you guys know that the NOTAMs are once again notices to airmen.
Speaker 1:I heard this.
Speaker 3:Instead of notices to air missions.
Speaker 1:Yes, so I'll take a drink to that. We told Ikea to shove it, didn't we? That's how I heard the story.
Speaker 3:No, I think we told the commies to shove it. I think is what we did.
Speaker 1:It was ICAO.
Speaker 3:I don't think so.
Speaker 1:It was the one that was doing that air mission stuff, was it?
Speaker 3:No it was the FAA, oh yeah, or else we wouldn't change it back. I mean, I guess I don't know how it would be a one-way street.
Speaker 1:Do you know the backstory of it?
Speaker 3:Like why it went back? Because it always was, and the only reason it went to air missions is from an inclusivity standpoint.
Speaker 1:Oh, because they didn't air men.
Speaker 3:Men, yes. Exclusivity standpoint oh, because they didn't like air men. Men, yes, now in under the guise. You know, the missions make sense, because what?
Speaker 3:if it's an unmanned aircraft, which obviously is an unmanned. So it's like you're. I mean, you gotta just see through it just a little bit and be like it's unmanned, it's not on whatever, so it's, it's just all crap. You know, I'm just like why change things? Just to change things? But it's back. The way it should be should never been changed to begin with, and I think all is right in the world, yeah, oh oh, I can't.
Speaker 3:I, I love it. You go into some of these airports where it's a digital ATIS and it's actually typed out notices to airmen. It's just phenomenal.
Speaker 1:That wasn't a uh. That wasn't what I initially thought you were going to say. There was something else we did that. We did a topic I think Scott was absent for this, or or I'm sure he would have corrected us. It might've been just you and I, lee, where we did a whole episode, not realizing that the FAA had canceled what we were talking about like two years prior. It was really bad. We got a bunch of hate. That was probably out of all the episodes we ever did. That was the most angry mail we ever got.
Speaker 3:I know what you're talking about. It was something to do with notums. I wanted to say like I agree with you yeah, something to do with notums I thought like local versus distant notums or fdc notums I thought you were saying they brought that back.
Speaker 1:I got all excited because I'm like I don't know we don't look like retards, but well, no, I mean, we are retards.
Speaker 3:Yeah, so it works out okay good, uh, you don't seem as excited about it as I think you should be, I'm excited.
Speaker 1:I just I don't know how much conversation we can get out of it, how much podcast time.
Speaker 3:You could get a little more excitement out of it.
Speaker 1:I think I was I was pumped okay I was I need a drink, another drink, scott needs another drink. I'm nervous to leave, okay until leave me alone until the topic gets on more safe territory oh what is the topic so that's why scott's yeah, you gotta be feeling it, dude.
Speaker 3:I'm feeling it a little bit yeah okay cool, cool, cool.
Speaker 1:It gives you a buzz it's just it doesn't get you drunk. It's like it's hard to explain, but it doesn't give you a hangover either. No, it doesn't, is it worth it. I would try it. I want to try it sometime.
Speaker 3:Yeah, I want to try it. Just judging by the feedback I'm getting right now, you seem just just it took the edge off your chill. It's like you just got out of the hot tub, you know yeah, yeah, you know, yeah, it's like hot tub it does, you know. You know what I'm talking about that feeling when you get out of the hot tub you're just like you're just loosened up, especially after you've had a couple beers.
Speaker 1:I just I never go in a hot tub unless I'm drinking, so I always just assumed it was the drinking I don't know if I've been in a hot tub sober in a long time.
Speaker 3:Okay, sorry, I took that I didn't mean to make it weird.
Speaker 1:No, actually I have been. But yeah, it's just, sometimes it gives you like, it makes you like you're not quite thinking straight when you go to talk.
Speaker 3:I know that feeling, so this is hard ketones is the brand.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it's R13 butane dial is the alcohol, but it doesn't yeah, r13 butane dial.
Speaker 3:But there's supposedly no hangover, right? No? And you can verify that?
Speaker 1:Yeah, there's no hangover. You can drink as much as you want and pass a breathalyzer, which is kind of scary because you shouldn't be driving still when you drink that. Probably not depending on how it affects you. Like I said, I've had some times where I take it and I didn't really notice anything, and then other times it's like oh, this is, this is good, you know okay yeah, the first time I took it the first time I took it I was on my second one.
Speaker 1:I drank one before we went to the restaurant and then I poured one in my. I just ordered a well, I just got a water and I poured it in my water at the restaurant and I was like part like a quarter way through my water when the waitress came over to take my order and it was like I don't even know if I can talk right now because it was like a different kind of buzz than alcohol.
Speaker 1:It was like interesting, it was like are my words gonna come out right? Because, like I don't know, just felt, felt funny, you know. Huh, it was almost like a, it was almost like a thc buzz, it's almost like. That time you did crack, yeah. Yeah, it wasn't quite as intense as the crack, but like I I've never smoked weed, but they have weed beers now and I tried one of those and it's kind of like that, but different. Okay.
Speaker 3:Rob, you got to go get a drink. I don't care for the.
Speaker 1:THC beers, though I don't.
Speaker 3:I mean.
Speaker 2:I've had them twice.
Speaker 1:Captain Morgan and Coca-Cola.
Speaker 3:Okay, go ahead. All right, We'll keep it PG.
Speaker 1:I don't care about that, I just keep it.
Speaker 3:Non-political.
Speaker 1:I guess we're on Rumble. It doesn't matter, but yeah, just for the sake of the audience. So what do you? How about all that?
Speaker 3:He's going to be running back. Yeah, he's going to be running back. Yeah, he's gonna be running back I'm excited. I need to try that, but you have to order it online yeah, I think so I don't know that you can get it anywhere.
Speaker 3:I think the only place I saw it was online man, I've tried so many things like hop water and all those things, and just nothing tricks your brain no, it doesn't work, but I would swear one percent alcohol. My body can tell the difference. Yeah, you know what I mean. Yeah, like you. Just you gotta have some amount of alcohol for it to just truly take the edge off.
Speaker 3:That's all I'm really ever looking for yeah I just like taste a beer, and so right, you just go, go go. You know, these are these miller extra lights.
Speaker 1:They're only 2.8 oh yeah, you can slam a lot of those phenomenal.
Speaker 3:Yeah, you get tired of drinking before you're like really buzzed I might have to try those. It's amazing get a 30 rack of these bad boys.
Speaker 1:I'm fine in the winter time, but in the summertime, like if I'm sitting outside, I I need a beer in my hand, you know? Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2:Totally.
Speaker 1:So wintertime I don't really care. I haven't been drinking much anyway, Like just I don't know I'm too busy to drink, so I just don't really get to when you get home and it's like time for bed for you, right, right, yeah, that minimizes. Lately. I buy a six of talls on Saturday after I get done working and I start drinking those. And then, uh, we usually go to the winery right down the road by one bottle of wine. She drinks one glass, I drink the rest of it, and that's, that's, that's a great arrangement.
Speaker 3:That's my buzz for the week. Yeah, okay, all right, what you got, rob. We havethest leader is back.
Speaker 1:We have a magazine. Don't tell him about all the AOPA Pilot Magazine. Okay, all right, I'm a bit behind. This is November 2023.
Speaker 2:Oh, just a touch.
Speaker 1:I got a stack. I'm about a year behind, but anyway, there's a couple points in here I thought would be great. The one main point is it's kind of a depressing story, but I think it's good. It's kind of a public service announcement. And then he makes a comment towards the end which we'll get into, uh, which I'm curious. If it would, it might frustrate lee. Um, anyway, let me let me get into it. This is savvy maintenance opinion in rudder and wrench. Okay, uh, deadly switches. That ubiquitous key operated ignition switch is fraught with peril by Mike Bush. Okay, um, um, again, yeah.
Speaker 3:Okay, you highlighted some of this right.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, I'm not going the whole article. All right, great Cool. I think you could with fair use, but there's some main points I want to hit.
Speaker 3:Let's do it, man.
Speaker 1:We'll stay well within our fair use here legality. On July 26, 2018, a private pilot from Sarasota, florida, and his wife flew to the Cleveland Regional Jetport RZR in Tennessee to run some errands, after which they returned to the airport to depart Shortly before 5 pm. The pilot was pre-flighting the Cessna 182 Skylane while his wife had opened the right cabin door and was preparing to climb into the right seat, she heard a noise that sounded like the airplane's engine was trying to start. She found the pilot lying on the ramp in front of the airplane. He had sustained severe head injuries and was non-responsive. Skylane's ignition key was in his pocket. The pilot's wife called for help, which quickly arrived. He was transported to the hospital by medevac helicopter but succumbed to his pocket. The pilot's wife called for help, which quickly arrived. He was transported to the hospital by medevac helicopter but succumbed to his injuries. Oh geez, not good.
Speaker 1:Ndsb findings. Accident investigators found that the right magneto of the airplane's Continental 0-470 engine was hot. The mag's P was broke, was not grounded out by the cockpit ignition switch. They found that the switch was not in the off position but rather in an intermediate position between the off and right detents. In that position, the switch did not ground out the right mag, the airplane's gerard ignition switch, ger des, what is that called, lee?
Speaker 3:I thought you'd know this, all right, I don't know okay, was designed to prevent the key from being removed from the lock cylinder in any position except off.
Speaker 1:However, when investigators tested the switch using the key found in the pilot's pocket, they found that it could be removed in any switch position. Further research revealed that both the key and the lock cylinder chamber had worn to the point that the integrity of the key retention feature had been compromised.
Speaker 3:Yep, you heard of this. I haven't heard of that, but I mean, I've heard and certainly experienced, uh, a plethora of worn out. You know ignition, you know car ignition style, mag switches, yes our forklift used to start up.
Speaker 1:just it'd just be sitting there in a shop. It would start up At the airport, at Boris Cycle.
Speaker 2:Oh, I thought you were talking about the Ryan Eccle incident.
Speaker 1:No that one would randomly go into gear. Okay, it didn't randomly start up. But if you'd put it in neutral and get off of it, it would just randomly jump back into gear. But this one I was talking about it's an old forklift, something like the 50s, but it would just randomly just start. Just be in the shop, nobody be anywhere near it, it would just start. And the one time it was in gear and just started and drove into the garage door, huh, okay, start.
Speaker 2:and the one time it was in gear and just started and drove into the garage door, huh, okay.
Speaker 1:So you had to had to make sure to put it neutral because it might just start up on you. I hope might be doing a master switch or something for the. Yeah, for whatever reason, the, the ignition switches, would always go bad on it. You'd switch them out, put, put a different one on and it would be fine for months, and then all of a sudden it would start doing it again. So I don't know if there was something that was causing it to melt the ignition switch or something inside.
Speaker 2:I don't know.
Speaker 1:So anyway, this freaked me out, as most of the things I read, I feel like I don't read that much aviation stuff or watch that much aviation content, so I'm focused on other stuff right now, but it seems like every time I do I tune in. It's some horrific thing that makes me right freaked out yeah, which is kind of depressing. It is um, but yeah, don't be careful with the ignition switches.
Speaker 3:Some tips.
Speaker 1:Some tips, Big tips Well let me say some tips.
Speaker 3:I don't know this article where it's going to go. Okay, two things I would say. You park your plane, set the parking brake, that's one. Two always treat the prop like the mags are on. The parking brake stops it from running over you, but treat it like the mags are hot all the time.
Speaker 3:I'm not saying this guy didn't do that, but I've tried to hand prop of 0470 like on purpose. The battery was dead, I had to hand prop it. It's about all you can do. You're turning over six. So this isn't a little like homing with seven to one compression ratio. This is is a six cylinder, eight and a half to one compression ratio with a big, big enough prop. You see, you can get some leverage on it, but it's about all you can do to turn this prop over.
Speaker 3:This was a well, I mean, I know only what you've just told me, but I know hand propping those, I know that engine, I know that airplane and I kind of probably have a pretty good idea of what mostly went on. But you got to treat like it's hot all the time and there's a confluence of issues for him to get it to start. I mean, how many people have trouble starting an engine with a freaking battery and just cranking the starter. They're pumping the accelerator, pump the throttle, the prime unit, they're doing all these things and they can't get it started anyways.
Speaker 1:I don't think it started on them. I don't think it started. Well, just kicked over yeah whacked them in the head.
Speaker 3:That's hard enough for people too. That's not the same as starting, I guess I agree with you. But just for it to just puff over, that's hard enough for enough people yeah, especially on an engine like that, that's yeah.
Speaker 3:I mean, it's not fuel injected, so it's not that hard. But for all of these things to line up that there was enough fuel for it to kick over, like what's going on with that carburetor, if there's any fuel in there to begin with for it to kick over Like what's going on with that carburetor, if there's any fuel in there to begin with for it to even kick over at all, because, right, you cut it, it's exhausting the fuel. There shouldn't be fuel for it to really kick over with anyways. So there's just several things going on here.
Speaker 1:Well, I think the starter, engage, is just what it sounds like, isn't it?
Speaker 3:No, I don't think so. No, that's all the way over. He was doing the pre-flight and he probably turned the prop, or to remove cowl plugs or look in the engine more or something and it fired somehow.
Speaker 1:The right mag was hot. That's it, yeah, okay.
Speaker 3:Yeah, I guess it would be the right mags are backwards.
Speaker 3:Yeah, so the right mag was hot, but you treat it like it's hot. The parking brake's on and that parking brake may have been on, but that's just. Those are two obvious things that you need to make sure. It's a pain in the ass sometimes, like we all know as line service, it's a pain in the ass when somebody set their parking brake and you're trying to move the airplane. We and you're trying to move the airplane. We had little real estate to work with from a line service standpoint, but we're constantly moving airplanes on the ramp on a busy day and it pissed you off when people set their parking brake. Well, it is a good practice to do that in case it does kick over and it does start. Maybe you do treat it like it's hot and you're out of the rotation of the prop, but if it starts moving forward, mow it over.
Speaker 3:Yeah, treat it like it's hot parking.
Speaker 1:brake on so part of the tips. First one I noticed it's more of a comment with a photo. It's got a bunch of keys on it and I remember when I was in high school with the 150 I had my airplane key on like my main key chain, like I had that, like other keys I had, like the 1990 corsica chevy corsica I had that key this big old key thing that's.
Speaker 3:Don't do that right, where's the more it's gonna put weight on it more.
Speaker 1:Wear on it, because a lot of people out there have this goofy little key chain thing. I just never take my key out of the ignition.
Speaker 2:Well, yeah, but a lot of times.
Speaker 1:You have it inside your hangar, though A lot of people don't have their own private hangar. Even when I used to fly over to Kelly's leave it in there. Somebody wants to take it for a spin, go for it.
Speaker 3:Insurance is paid.
Speaker 1:Yeah, when I flew your plane to kelly's I would take the key out. Uh, this is what he said. I was gonna read this. There's, it's some good advice in here. And then, towards the end, I'm curious to see lee's reaction. The best way to protect yourself and your airplane from falling victim to this problem is to always assume that the magnetos are hot, regardless of the position of the ignition switch or the location of the ignition key. So that's basically identical to what you were saying, lee never rotate the prop by hand unless you absolutely have to. If you're in the habit of rotating the prop to a certain position after you park your airplane example, horizontal for two blade props or blade down for three blade props try to get out of the habit. See I that my ocd wouldn't allow me to do that? I've. It's a two-bladed prop that's got to be kept. Even I don't know Huh, but I guess I don't like them even.
Speaker 1:No. No, I always leave it where it stops. What if you got a tow bar on you?
Speaker 2:just chop that tow bar off.
Speaker 1:I just move it a little bit Okay.
Speaker 3:No, nobody, unless they're an idiot chops up a tow bar.
Speaker 1:Well, I didn't chop up a tow bar because my tow bar was steel so it chopped up the propeller.
Speaker 3:It was perfectly intact.
Speaker 1:The tow bar was fine, absolutely fine. It didn't even hardly put a scratch in it. It knocked some of the paint off. That was it.
Speaker 3:I mean it shouldn't stop. I mean, actually, if they're indexed, they're manufacturers in whatever. They have them indexed differently, so their stopping point is different, so some of them can be right in the way. But I mean normally I mean you like to see them kind of like on, if you're looking whatever from the plane of rotation. You want like a 10 o'clock and a don't know five o'clock. I don't know my directions, what are those 10? And what's the opposite of 10 o'clock in a clock? Look where the blades are. So you want like a 10 and a. What's the other?
Speaker 1:one, I guess four, 10 and four, 10 and four, I think 10 and four. Yeah, 10 and two is what they tell you to put your hands on the steering wheel, yeah right. Well, I'm trying to power through the 10 and 2 US here, 10 and 4.
Speaker 3:Yeah, yeah, 10 and 4. 10 and 4 is kind of like where you want to see it stop.
Speaker 1:I'm trying to picture a clock in my head.
Speaker 3:That's hard. It's hard to do. It's hard.
Speaker 1:Okay, if you must rotate the prop by hand Example for tow bar access, scott yeah, then always rotate it in the opposite direction of normal rotation.
Speaker 3:Oh, but which way is normal rotation it's so hard.
Speaker 1:I realize you may have been taught that rotating the prop backwards can harm dry vacuum pumps, but I've been doing it for five decades. I can tell you it's one of those old wives tales that refuses to die hmm, interesting makes sense to me. I've, just I've. No, I always thought that was bad. But mike bush is.
Speaker 3:He runs savvy aviation he's got what he's talking about yeah, he's not a clueless person of the things I am worried about. He's published in AOPA.
Speaker 1:Pilot. The three of us would not be published in here under any circumstances. I don't think no Negative. So he automatically knows more than we do, Maybe Lee could get published in there, but Maybe Make some phone calls.
Speaker 3:Yeah, right, right, we know people. Okay, is that the last tip?
Speaker 1:yeah, that was the last. It was the prop in the wrong direction opposite direction. I had never heard that that was okay. I was always told never, ever, ever turn a prop in the opposite direction of it, the way it normally rotates, and uh fairly, me as well.
Speaker 3:Fairly credible source is saying it's fine yeah, I've always. I was always told that too. I don't know why. I think if you just the base things, parking brake set, treat it like it's hot, I think those two things still stop the serious injury from happening.
Speaker 1:Oh yeah I always acted like it was gonna spontaneously just start exactly rotating yeah, yeah, I just if I spin it, I just don't stand in a way that it could hit me. I always worried about your dumb ass dog, scott, at the airport with props. That, honestly, has always made me very concerned wait, well lewis yes, lewis. Okay, I was gonna say I don't think we got lewis, when you, honestly, has always made me very concerned.
Speaker 1:Wait. Well, lewis, yes Lewis, I was going to say I don't think we got Lewis when you were still flying, though. No, but I mean I've been up there a lot since you've gotten. Lewis, Well, yeah yeah, and he makes me very nervous.
Speaker 1:Yeah yeah, he don't go out there too much. I mean, if he goes out by the runway like we're with him, all right we. If he goes out by the runway like we're with him, so all right, anyway. Side note, but yeah, the opposite rotation I guess is perfectly fine, if not preferable yeah I I would have to do more.
Speaker 3:I can't weigh in on that.
Speaker 1:I don't really care we don't want to treat like it's hot, it's not a problem yeah, they.
Speaker 1:Yeah, who was? Let me read. Let me give we. Tyler said the flight school took off with a freaking chain and tire attached to the rear. Tie down, that's worse than leaving the tow bar on. Yeah, that's worse than I'll give you that. Let me. Where is this article? I lost it already. I was going to give we got fairy. Oh yeah, okay, ask the amps. Mike bush, paul new and colin sterling answer your toughest aviation maintenance questions on ask the amps podcast all right so it's an it's yeah, go check it out.
Speaker 1:They probably publish more often than we publish and probably have a higher consistent hit rate of intelligent things to say.
Speaker 3:No doubt.
Speaker 1:Higher batting average. Yeah, there you have it.
Speaker 3:We say some smart things sometimes. Yeah, we do Leave an accident.
Speaker 1:I'm just saying their batting average might be a little higher in that department.
Speaker 3:It's a touch yeah. Yeah, I mean. I say I mean we give some sound advice. I would say I think people know when we're being satirical. And such Good advice, no jokes.
Speaker 1:Like you know, pull the car be nice slow. Yes, packing milk jugs. Dude, don't buy airplanes.
Speaker 3:Yeah, don't buy airplanes unless you're going to quickly subsequently chop them up into pieces.
Speaker 1:No one buys more airplanes than Scott Boris? I don't know, I bought a lot of airplanes in my. I don't even know anymore how many, but it's up there start calling you the undertaker yeah, boriscyclecom, you'd see all the airplanes for us well, anyways, we do give some good advice. I mean borisairpartscom. Nevermind, I misspoke, you're correct, borisairpartscom. I misspoke, you're correct, borisairpartscom.
Speaker 3:Oh, yeah, I mean. So what's next on the docket? Scott, you said you thought you had something that you wanted to yeah what was that?
Speaker 1:We covered everything, lee and I wanted to touch on. You had that long list, you said, of I want to talk about all these crashes.
Speaker 3:That's on my list. Really, I was going to avoid that because I why said of I want to talk about all these crashes. That's on my list?
Speaker 1:yeah, really I was gonna avoid that because I why? I don't like talking about it till the we know information, but if you're, if you're wanting to, well, I mean, it's just, it's more of the sentiment of the chat, you guys.
Speaker 3:You know just kind of the state of the state of things, I suppose he says 888 no tam.
Speaker 1:Exotic bird activity on runway I just I just called and put a note amount. I closed the runway because it's a freaking swamp out there.
Speaker 1:Did you? You, you personally, scott boris just put in a no tam. I do it all the time and it's it's a pain. How, how does that work? It's not a pain to just close the runway. It's a pain to tell them that it's soft because some, some people on the other end of the line know exactly what you're talking about. They're like, okay, and they put a soft note on it.
Speaker 1:Other people, just they can't figure it out. They'll say well, what do you mean? It's soft, it's a grass strip, so it's soft. Oh, we can't, we can't put a notam on a grass strip. Yes, you can, they do it all the time. Nope, nope, we can't do that. It's like well, every other time I call, I can put a notam on the grass strip. Uh, it's not in our system, I can't do that. Okay, I'll call a little bit later, get somebody else and they'll do it. Or, like some people, it just takes them. Like some people pick up the phone hey, runway, soft, put an Odem on. I'm off the phone within like a minute and a half. Other people 10 minutes later. They're like going through stuff, trying to figure stuff out. It like I don't know, it's not that much of a pain, but it is like certain people, they don't. They don't know what, they don't know how to put a note on.
Speaker 3:I don't know I'm sorry you had to deal with that scott closing.
Speaker 1:It's easy, just tell them it's closed. They can all figure that out.
Speaker 3:Runway close if you could say the runway is closed. It should be just so you say runway is soft like right, so there's a free text area.
Speaker 1:It's not.
Speaker 2:I guess they can't handle it.
Speaker 1:Wow, like say, say, your dad was in florida for the winter so he wasn't paying attention for a few months of anything going on the airport. Could you just put some weird shit, like like a ws, no tam, like, but really really some weird stuff? Oh yeah, I could. I could put whatever I want on there. I guess.
Speaker 1:I feel like there needs to be at least one, and then it needs to be like screenshotted of just something silly. It's got to be true. You don't want to be like calling in and just falsifying stuff, because that would be illegal. But I guess, when the stars align, where there's something going on where it could just be described oddly, I just think it'd be funny to play with that a little bit. There's a line where there's something going on where it could just be described oddly. I just think it'd be funny to play with that a little bit, just for people reading it in the local area up there would just be like what is going on at Scott's Airport.
Speaker 3:Yeah, I mean I'd have to think of something we could do, yeah not many people have the ability to just put a government notam out for something.
Speaker 1:I'm authorized to do that, wow.
Speaker 3:Man, I feel pretty important. I don't know how you can stand the power.
Speaker 1:It's a lot of power. It sounds like it is. It's a lot of responsibility Playing God over there.
Speaker 3:It is absolutely.
Speaker 2:Lately I've been writing down all the names of the people that that don't uh know how to do a notum and then I I submit it to doge. You gotta, you gotta. Yeah, you gotta tweet elon, I was just gonna say, I tweet elon directly.
Speaker 1:He usually responds let me know I'll post it on uh foreign at foreign podcast handle they go. Oh yeah we we can't put a soft note on a grass strip. I say, well, what was your name again? And then I just go right to x elon exactly found one. I'll share it on the on the happy hunting hey, el found one.
Speaker 3:Oh God, it's just fantastic.
Speaker 1:Okay, it's fantastic.
Speaker 3:Yes, go ahead. Yeah, please save us Rob.
Speaker 1:Save us.
Speaker 3:We're spiraling. Yeah, Lee and I are about to get you out here.
Speaker 1:No, yeah, but I'm serious though. Like, tell me what's going on, Scott. I can sometimes, if I'm in a good, Tell me what's going on, Scott. Sometimes, if I'm in a good mood, I can be somewhat creative and I might be able to come up with something funny. I just feel like that'd be great. But it's truthful, accurate, not falsifying information, but just a funny way to word stuff.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I don't know.
Speaker 1:I feel like we would have to put something out there.
Speaker 3:What would make the most sense is probably go to like a um, an fa document that lists all the different codes, and that would probably give you some food for thought. You know what I mean. Yeah, like the most outrageous one you could put, that would be like.
Speaker 1:The only thing I can think of is like drunk people on golf carts near near runway. Use caution. That's never lying in the summertime, right?
Speaker 2:you use caution, you can just leave that up. People on golf you can just leave that up.
Speaker 1:Yeah, impaired impaired individuals june through november drunken general drunkenness in the vicinity of runway but see, then you're going to turn into a tourist destination. That's true. It's just going to turn into more of a shit show. You're going to have more ruts in the runway if that happens. Tyler says trash pile on fire next to runway. Yeah, that'd be good, that's true, it does happen.
Speaker 2:Oh yeah, I'm sure you could do.
Speaker 1:Okay, so we had something else going before I rudely interrupted.
Speaker 3:Well, Scott never brought up the, or was that it? I don't.
Speaker 1:What.
Speaker 3:I was supposed to talk about. Yeah, there was something you wanted to talk about.
Speaker 1:Was that it? I just did I what I was supposed to talk about yeah, there was something you wanted to talk about? Was that it? I just did? Oh, that was it, okay. You want to talk about NOTAMs? You giving the NOTAMs, notams, okay.
Speaker 3:Yeah, notices to airmen. I mean, I just want to say the whole thing Notices to airmen so.
Speaker 1:Lee you wanted to talk about crashing.
Speaker 3:Yeah, to talk about crashing. Yeah, I mean it's, it's uh the the. The first crash was at my, the first of the most recent ones, you know, back in the late january, there, that one in dca.
Speaker 1:Um, that kind of hit in a weird way, blackhawk the blackhawk.
Speaker 3:Yeah, hitting that crj, the canada air regional jet. That hit kind of close to home, um. As soon as I saw the flight number I knew that was a psa airlines, which was my before my current airline. That was my most recent airline that I worked for and I was based in dca and um, so I'd done that exact approach they were doing I've and um. So I'd done that exact approach they were doing I've. I have not been able to find out that n number of that airplane, but I'm sure that I've flown that exact airplane and it's just. You know, I didn't know any of the crew members or anything like that, but I knew ever I. I just I was so in tune with what, with what happened. And you know, there's so many of those blackhawks going up and down the river all day long and normally it's three or four at a time. I mean, the fact that it was one was just, and how it could happen. I could see it happening so easily. It was only a matter of time. It's obviously super unfortunate.
Speaker 1:But are they just too high? The Blackhawk.
Speaker 3:You know, I don't know, because that airliner, if the Blackhawk was at one altitude and they just stayed on that plane the entire time, it may have, if they would have been low they wouldn't have hit, I mean. Or if they would have been a little bit high, oh, if they were higher, they were high, but they were just high enough. If they would have been higher it would have been better. If they were lower, they would probably just in it, potentially just in a different spot. I it's just, it's so hard to again, it's just a perfect storm. I mean, it just blows my mind. Who's calling out what traffic in sight and where they were and were they lined up for one? But then it got a late clearance to land three, three, which is they were landing 3-3,. But there are multiple points. If you look at their track, like on FlightAware, there are two points on the approaches. If you're on final for one and you're turning final for 3-3, that to that Blackhawk, it would be the same basic look. Obviously distance would change things, but their perspective wouldn't be very, very similar to how that landing light was pointed and things like that. So it was just a perfect storm.
Speaker 3:I looked at the historical altimeter settings on that day. If, for some odd reason, one of them would have been on standard 2992, if they would have used that and one of them was on, because that would put them lower, you know. So that doesn't necessarily make sense, but I did kind of determine I think it was like 106 or 116 feet, something like that they could have been off if one of them would have been standard. That would have made them high, though, or low, not high. So I don't quite understand how. If it was an altimeter thing I'm not saying it was I was trying to think of like super easy things, that like why were they high? Why, you know, you would think they would have enough information that they wouldn't just be randomly whatever 200 feet high or whatever. But I was grasping for straws, but I mean just the perfect storm and I don't know what all has come out. I know more will, but I mean it's just always an accident waiting to happen At nighttime you guys know, how it is at night.
Speaker 3:Your depth perception is completely screwed especially at that altitude.
Speaker 1:I mean I hate flying into busy airports, I wouldn't want to do it ever, but I feel like AI air traffic control is coming at some point and that would probably have prevented that, because it would have seen that they were on a collision trajectory. I mean definitely would have seen that they were on a collision trajectory.
Speaker 3:I mean, definitely would have seen it. Yeah, I guess, I don't know how exactly scott I don't know. I don't know that that's necessarily true because that crj was hand flying right, but they could have been.
Speaker 1:They could have been 50 feet low well, I know, because there's no real defined glide path where I'm just saying if, if you had an artificial intelligence monitoring all of the data coming into atc, it would have definitely picked up on. Okay, this is, these are too.
Speaker 3:I almost have to disagree. There's a certain point, yeah, obviously, and it would have just separated them laterally then.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I mean it just.
Speaker 3:Well, yeah, but take that to the whole country and say now we're going to only worry about separating things laterally, not vertically, just laterally, it could do both.
Speaker 1:It doesn't have to be laterally, vertically, just laterally, could do both.
Speaker 3:Well, it, but it did I don't think it could in this case, because there were two human variables and that crj, right, but it was not following a perfect three degree it's going to know their exact location altitude yeah, when they hit, that's going to know it.
Speaker 2:Before that they're on radar. How is it adsb out?
Speaker 1:supposed to right stop, it's going to have all the. It's going to know it before that they're on radar. How Isn't ADS-B out supposed to stop? This it's going to have all the data from the ADS-B, from radar. It's going to have all that data coming into it and it can update instantly, continuously, unlike a human air traffic controller. It would have seen that from it, would have seen that trajectory, it would have seen that collision coming long before it ever happened. Scott wants AI to do everything, everything, yeah.
Speaker 3:I think that it would have further out. You're wrong. The further you got out from that impact point, the less that AI could understand.
Speaker 1:I disagree. No, because the vectors are constantly changing. If you have humans flying each aircraft, Dude, he's hand-flying the airplane.
Speaker 2:I realize that, but they could have been perfect until the last minute, I mean there are some stuff.
Speaker 1:Yeah, the last second there are some stuff that the air traffic controllers can see already on their screen. That would look good, look good, look good. And at the last second, like something shifts a little bit, and it's not.
Speaker 2:That's possible. I don't know if that's what happened, but it's possible. The equipment.
Speaker 1:The shit that they're using is so outdated. Oh yeah, it's a bunch of crap. There's a documentary I've been meaning to watch. I reposted a section if you go to the X feed, the At Far Aim podcast that the Blaze did. The thing looks interesting and it was November, I think, of last year about how they're still using floppy disks. Atc in the United States is still using floppy disks. Yeah, it's a bunch of crap. I just saw the preview for the documentary.
Speaker 2:I haven't actually watched the documentary, yet I want to.
Speaker 1:It's a bunch of crap. That's one of the other things that I guess Elon or SpaceX or whatever is supposed to be helping the FAA to modernize air traffic control. Nice comment, Lee, in the chat.
Speaker 2:I have not seen.
Speaker 1:The Matrix, oh you should, I never watched it. That or Star Wars. I've never seen the Matrix or Star Wars, oh, dear Lord.
Speaker 3:Oh, that's a crime against humanity.
Speaker 1:The thing that's like Star Wars, but not I haven't seen that either Star Trek.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I haven't seen that either.
Speaker 3:I've never seen star trek.
Speaker 2:I have seen star wars, though hey, the the, the lady who was um directing the most recent trilogy of star wars. They made it like all, like female, like a lead and all that stuff made it all.
Speaker 3:Yeah dei, yeah um. She just resigned, I guess yesterday or something like yeah, so maybe we can get that franchise back you what.
Speaker 1:I saw that on a show I watch. I don't oh, okay.
Speaker 3:I literally don't care, though oh okay, Well, I do. Huge Star Wars fan.
Speaker 1:I'm not going to watch it either way.
Speaker 3:Oh, that's, oh, geez that's. Oh, you're killing me. Back to the ai. I don't scott you're. You're mostly correct, and obviously it's computing power and what it can figure out. I think the human element is going to really make that difficult up until the point of impact the further away he's the individual's hand flying predict things like long before humans can like the like the the ai. This is not one of those things. This is not one of those exact things you're talking.
Speaker 1:I think computerization of that could have helped, that's very possible, I just don't think that it's just an end all, unless yeah, the computers are just handling everything.
Speaker 2:And there's eventually, the glitch in the computers, yeah, which I think you're gonna have computer glitches, then at that point too.
Speaker 1:Whether it's nice or more than human error probably less, I don't know, it'll definitely be less.
Speaker 3:The CRJ has what's called TCAS Traffic Collision Avoidance System. Where was that at? That should have been real-time telling it. The two transponders on those two aircraft were talking.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 3:Giving potentially a RA, a resolution advisory, telling that CRJ to climb. If I don't know what equipment is on, the Blackhawk doesn't really matter. It likely at that altitude is not going to tell somebody and a lot of these things are inhibited. If the only thing that it can tell you to avoid a collision is to descend into the ground, it's not going to tell you anything. Normally it's inhibited below you know certain altitudes and whatever.
Speaker 3:I think the crj it would have given them a resolution advisory to climb and I don't know why that didn't happen or why they didn't listen. I, I don't know. Maybe we did a malfunction, was the safest thing for the CRJ to descend and so it was inhibited. I don't know. But flying that exact approach there are so many variables. Ai, it would just be yeah, it's going to refresh constantly, refresh and come up with a new solution constantly, and I do get that. And maybe a second is all you would have needed to save everybody's life and AI could have helped there. No, ai would have helped, obviously, if it could save them by a second. Maybe it would have made it a non-event or you know what I mean saved everybody's life. But I think the biggest, the best easy solution that we could do now is separate everybody laterally. I was making that a point like that's all AI is going to do, but that is something we could almost institute now.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 3:Separation laterally, and that's real easy. Vertically is where the challenge becomes, for Remember, they're in, they're in tower. You know the terminal environment. It's a tower, looking at the, looking at the one with binoculars for separation purposes. Now obviously they relinquish some of their job when they say, hey, do you have that traffic in sight? And they're like, okay, we're good, you got them in sight. You call them in sight, we're good. How closely they are watching the situation unfold obviously is going to take a major dive once an aircraft says the other one's in sight. So I mean, you're fighting those things and I think they're going to remedy, you know whatever they find on the tapes and whatnot, and I think AI will obviously help, but there's just the human element is gonna be tough I'm curious what you mentioned how like, oh, the blackhawk would have been.
Speaker 1:What technology to have on board? Yeah I get mixed opinions from different military people. I know where some of the some people I talked to. They're like, oh yeah, super, like it's crazy stuff, top secret, like the best of the best.
Speaker 1:And then I talked to some other people who were in the military like, oh no, it's like the crappiest, like they don't put any money into it, like it's garbage and I'm sure it depends on probably depends on what you're in and you know of why I different people have different stuff, opinions and and, but it just seems like it's either the crappiest, oldest stuff or like super sophisticated top secret. They can't even talk about it like I just feel like there's very little in between from when I the rare occasions that it comes up about, like what the military stuff has in it yeah so yeah, I would say so
Speaker 1:maybe it was a an instance of there's hardly any good technology on board.
Speaker 3:Yeah, yeah, I don't know. We'll have to wait and see, I guess, what the ultimate findings are. I mean, just the perfect storm, though once again, I mean you can't make this shit up. I mean they called them inside. They were going in line with one runway, they thought, but they maybe got a circle to the other runway late and as they made that turn, it looked like they were on final for the other runway that they previously called them out for. It's just nuts. And at night, I heard, maybe they're on night vision goggles and obviously that's going to distort your hell. I mean, my depth perception is thrown off when I have sunglasses on. You know what I mean?
Speaker 1:yeah, like, if I'm going to do my best of my best landings, I put my sunglasses up it's like can't you go to a different area to do night vision goggle training than right around where airliners are potentially well coming across your flight path?
Speaker 3:well, that just makes perfect sense. I mean, do we need AI to tell us that that's a bad idea? You know what I mean? It's just let's use our freaking head.
Speaker 1:Zero, eventually, ai is just going to tell us what to do all the time. It's going to tell you what to do, Scott Lee and I are going to listen. That's fine, that's right, you're going to listen.
Speaker 3:You're going to do what it says.
Speaker 1:They're going.
Speaker 2:That's fine, I'm fine with that.
Speaker 1:I'm fine with that. I gotta go to bed, oh okay 908, I figured, so leave your browser up. I got fiber so it's already uploaded you gotta leave your browser up later goodnight Scott later.
Speaker 3:Wow, ai just told him to go to bed. Tim his iPhone's. Like you are up way too late. What's going on later? Wow, there was, there was a. I just told him to go to bed. Yeah, I told him it was time to get his iphone's.
Speaker 1:Like you are up way too late. What's going on? His aura ring started going off?
Speaker 3:oh for sure, yeah, yeah, yeah. I mean I see, I see where ai obviously is going to simplify things, make things a lot safer. I mean, I think a lot of times we're going to end up now, even if it does separate laterally, I do think it is still going to do a great job of maximizing the, even with just lateral separation. In that case, if they would have just separated them laterally, it doesn't matter if the Blackhawks high, doesn't matter if the CRJ is high or low or any of that stuff they weren't going to hit. They weren't not. They were not on a trajectory. They were going to hit.
Speaker 3:And obviously you know 2020 hindsight, you know that that maybe would have been good, especially in that type of congested visual flight rules or visual conditions. I think that would have been the safest course of action. But total Monday morning quarterback on that. But I just I know exactly that approach, those conditions, that airplane, that flight profile, that everything. I mean I was based there for a year and doing that and I love doing that approach because the autopilot's off.
Speaker 3:You can't fly that approach with the autopilot on. So I mean you're just doing, you know, stick and rudder and it's just, it's a blast because you're doing this turn to final, like 300 feet, and when do you get to do that in an airliner you like? In their case they got 70, whatever people, 60, 70 people in the back and you're just cranking and banking this thing and I mean you just roll out on this for, for our standards and airliners, a short runway, it's. It's just a blast. You feel like this is why we do this and um, it's just a shame that you know wrong place, wrong time what was the other crash up in Canada?
Speaker 3:Yeah, the other CRJ.
Speaker 1:That was another plane you were familiar with right.
Speaker 3:Yeah, CRJ 900. Yeah, so just one was a 700, one was a 900.
Speaker 1:Two different airlines, but yeah, you haven't flown that tail number, though, because it was.
Speaker 3:No, because that's at a different carrier.
Speaker 3:Yeah, that was at a different carrier. So, yeah, I doubt it was a tail number's a different carrier. Yeah, yeah, that's a different carrier. Uh, so, yeah, I doubt it was this a tail number that, unless they bought and sold but I don't think they did. But that one you know from the videos I saw yeah, looks like they hit pretty hard and collapsed that right main gear and then folded up that wing and then, uh, obviously everybody saw the the over.
Speaker 3:But what blows my mind is how quickly all that happens. I mean it's just like in real time the thing. How can you be sitting in the front of that airplane as as one of the pilots and just like what the hell just happened? I mean just it just so quick. And then nobody got got seriously hurt or killed. I mean that's, that's a miracle, thank god.
Speaker 3:But um, those I, if I remember correctly, those have like a feet per minute. So, like I never thought about until I flew that airplane, you know when you're trying to do a really soft touchdown, obviously the goal was to touch down at like zero feet per minute. There's no differential between how quickly the ground is coming up to meet you. That's what you want, right? That's your softest, you just want to roll it on and in those, if I remember correctly, this could be way off, so I don't even know why I'm going to even say a number, but they have a finite value. And I want to say it's like 600 feet per minute ish just always at ish, ish yeah, and allegedly take.
Speaker 3:Yeah, give or take 200, allegedly had 600 ish yeah, that makes me sound more committed to the number than I am, though allegedly like I actually heard it. But yeah, I mean, yeah, your point's well taken, um, but there's a finite value that structural failure or structural damage will occur. And yeah, I don't remember what it is. I want to say 600 feet per minute. But you know, what did they touch down at? And obviously there's reasons. You can have firm landings, you can do everything right, and then the wind goes away and then your airspeed goes away. So you're now much closer to stall and in that type of airplane where you have an 80,000 pound while your max landing weight is probably in the 60s I don't remember anymore, but your max landing weight is 60,000 pounds.
Speaker 3:When you're coming out of the bottom of something like that, what people don't think about is like when we start arresting the rate of descent in these airplanes, you know, out of 50 feet we're transitioning from that that descent rate to the runway into arresting it, getting towards that zero feet per minute you have inertia, kind of pulling you through the bottom of that maneuver, kind of a sensation and a feeling that you're not really used to in light GA airplanes. Yeah, it's there because you still have some weight that is trying to go down and you're trying to stop it from going down as fast. But when you start having 100,000 pounds or 80,000 pounds that you're trying to stop. That is a huge component of what we're transitioning, what we are managing, and the bigger the airplane is, the wider range you're working with.
Speaker 3:One landing you may be pretty light, so you're playing that game and you only really get a sensation for when you start actually picking the nose up to transition to the flare and arrest that sink rate. But then there's other times where you're closer to max landing weight and they have two totally different personalities. You have maybe 20,000 more pounds that you're wrestling with of inertia that you have to arrest and sometimes it can sneak up on you and the airplane being. I just flew this, I just flew this airplane and I didn't have these types of sensation, these feelings, and that will help you dictate your rate as you reduce your well, increase your pitch attitude to arrest it. Sorry, go ahead, man.
Speaker 1:I have nothing to contribute to the airliner flying flair.
Speaker 3:Yeah well, I thought you were kind of making mention like wrap it up, or I had something to say.
Speaker 1:I'm usually drinking in the back, is my the vast majority of my airline experience, which I yeah well I have not done in a long time because,
Speaker 3:I uh well I just don't like it well, yeah, then I mean the next time you do it, I mean, just think about how much do we weigh right now and how much inertia are we going to have coming out of the bottom of this flare?
Speaker 1:I just hope I don't and I, just I avoid flying the airlines for years now, at all costs I don't blame you.
Speaker 1:It's not getting any better no, it's it's just for sure it's not a lot of people. I don't fly because of this and that I I was before. Like the scare of who's in the cockpit and their qualifications, like this recently conversation that's been going on, I just the whole dealing with the TSA and feeling like cattle is, even with perfectly run aircraft, perfectly trained crews, with experience and all the other boxes, it's still just an awful experience to me. I don't like it at all.
Speaker 3:I hope not. I mean not to be funny about it, but I'm not a government fan and I think most people left right, whatever I think a lot of people in their own ways they know what it feels like to not be appreciated by public servants. You go to a DMV some of them are phenomenal, whatever, a lot aren't. You go to the post office everybody knows those feelings. They're public servants, we pay their salary, but you're treated just exactly the way you're describing and I'm hoping that, as a byproduct of this kind of renaissance that we're having right now with Doge, whatever, that we can kind of get you know, the ducks back in a row and making them understand that we're honestly maybe even better than treating us like customers, like we literally directly pay. Pay them for their service. The only reason their department is funded, the only reason they get a paycheck, is because of us, and I'm hoping that that bears some fruit in the not-too-distant future.
Speaker 1:On that note, I just for 10 years plus I just. The TSA is ridiculous, like the airline should just handle their own security in some places they do better.
Speaker 3:It would be slightly better, um I not a whole lot better, because airlines aren't, they're just it's.
Speaker 1:They're gigantic bureaucracies in and of themselves, but they're also responsible then yeah, but they're also responsible to their customers.
Speaker 3:If you have you know um million miler people or platinum elite or whatever your airline's program is and they come through and be like I was, whatever, heckled, whatever, they will make changes.
Speaker 2:Yeah, the government is so unresponsible to us as taxpayers, they don't care.
Speaker 1:Yeah, in do it, they don't care yeah.
Speaker 3:And at least from a financial standpoint, the airline, I feel like you could make, and maybe almost overnight, changes. That's just not going to happen with a government entity. So, yeah, there's some merit to what you're saying, I think, and a lot of these airlines it's becoming so competitive you can go almost anywhere on almost anyone and if that's the race, we don't want the race to the bottom. We had the race to the bottom over the last 15 years or so and there's some consolidation that's happened and some good and some bad and whatever, and I understand monopolies, but I feel like that race to the bottom, I think, is mostly over. So I think that that there will be. Um, I think there's some good things coming.
Speaker 3:I mean, I know from us as crew members, we, we have something called known crew member and I want to talk to my I don't I'm probably not supposed to talk too much about it anyways, but we have a designated security about it anyways.
Speaker 3:But we have a designated security area. That's not really a secret to anybody, but there have been people that have just abused it and gotten caught and they're doing away with it now. So we have, you know, everything's kind of randomly screened and whatever and it's, it's pretty often. It's only gotten more and more often as time has gone on, as they have found more people getting through. When they get randomed, they find stuff and it's like dude, you know, this is such a privilege, it's not a right, it's a privilege and you're just abusing it and you're going to ruin it for everybody. And now they officially have. So there's a date when they're wrapping it up and all of our bags are are going to get screened every single time. No more random. So I'm going to get screened and I'm okay with that obviously I got nothing to hide.
Speaker 1:You guys can't not do your Cuban cigars Lee. Oh my gosh.
Speaker 3:I know. I know it's a shame, it's a shame.
Speaker 1:It's flight cruise every time you go to Cuba.
Speaker 3:Not going to Cuba too often but yeah, yeah, and I'm fine with it. Like I said, I have nothing to hide, but it's just. There are places we go where they have like the municipality or that airport authority hires private security and it is a breath of fresh air. It's quick. You always scan your bag. The bag always goes through the X-ray. It's like normal screening. It's like a normal passenger, like pre-check or something, but it always gets screened, but it's quick.
Speaker 1:It's not the TSA doing TSA-like stuff.
Speaker 3:I mean it's TSA-like stuff and I guess in some sense it's transportation something. But it's not the feds, it's not the Federal Transportation Security Administration.
Speaker 3:Interesting I didn't know that existed. Yeah, yeah, it's. San Fran, I know, is the one place for sure that we have it and it's a delight. But everything gets scanned. You always go through a metal detector, your bag always gets scanned, but it's quick. And the one thing that I absolutely hate is when we get random from our normal security and we have to go get in with the regular passengers and we have to do this thing like, okay, I'm going to wait in this long line, but I got a flight to leave, we're going to delay, or you kind of cut people off and it's like most people are, like we get it, we're not going unless you're going, but there's other people who kind of give you grief and I just don't like it. You'd kind of defy the laws of the universe, right? Everybody's first come, first served and I just hate it. That's the one part that I hate. And if we get our own designated security area and we're always scanned, I will be happy to do it with nothing to hide and just get through.
Speaker 1:Private jets are defying the rules of life.
Speaker 2:Whatever you just said.
Speaker 1:I forgot the phrase you used.
Speaker 3:Defies the laws of the universe. Yes, what do you mean?
Speaker 1:Private jets defy the laws of the universe as far as traveling, yeah.
Speaker 3:Yeah, yeah, hey, if you got it. And you know, COVID taught all of these private net jets FlexJet. Did you see that one FlexJet in Southwest at Midway?
Speaker 1:No.
Speaker 3:Where that southwest had to go around oh, yeah, vaguely yeah, yeah. Well, anyways, I mean, there's just so many these, all these, you know smaller carriers, you know net jets, flex jet, uh, wheels up, there's so many now, and small ones too.
Speaker 1:What net jets had insane standards for their pilots. Is that held, do you know, with the recent airline hiring spurge?
Speaker 3:I don't think they've relaxed anything.
Speaker 1:Okay, because it just depends on what you want. They must have upped the salaries or stuff.
Speaker 3:Salaries are way high. Yeah, salaries are great.
Speaker 1:I know NetJets is one of the most selective hirers of pilots.
Speaker 3:Yeah, no, I mean I'd say they're up there. Yeah for sure. I mean they may look in different areas and be more selective in certain areas than others, but I don't think they've had to really relax anything Just because their pool of people who want to do that type of flying is better. You know, there you get two weekends off a month. I may not get any.
Speaker 1:There's seven last I heard most of their pilots run seven days on, seven days off yes, okay.
Speaker 3:So doesn't that mean you get two weekends a month?
Speaker 1:probably, yeah, I don.
Speaker 3:I don't know. I'm not sure. I was under the assumption they got two weekends off a month. Well, that would sound right. I can't be sure.
Speaker 1:Seven on, seven off, that would be. Yeah, two weeks A week would include a weekend.
Speaker 3:Yeah, that's what I'm thinking.
Speaker 1:Some months, depending on how it lines up, you might get three.
Speaker 3:Yes, and I don't know how they handle those. Well, you're compensated well, so I think it's just a different pool. They're pulling from a lot of the time and they make great money and they're treated well. So I think it just depends. So I don't think they've had to relax, even though the airlines are hiring a lot. I don't think they've had to relax any standards that I know of. Yeah, from the people that I know that work there, which is only a lot.
Speaker 1:I don't think they've had to relax any standards that I know of, yeah, from the people that I know that worked there, which is only a few, but I only know of a few. There's probably half overlap between who we know.
Speaker 1:Maybe not I don't know. I know, yeah, anyway, is that? I don't know? I still got drink, drink left. There's not a bunch going on the chat, usually towards the end here we rely on chat stuff. We got 12 people still hanging in there. Stewart said almost looked like a stage training video, so perfectly timed the swa go around yeah, I mean it looked so, so good to me.
Speaker 3:Um, I uh, it did look great. I mean it. They, they did everything right by the looks of things. Um, one thing that I pointed out when I watched it is like, look how close they are. I'm like, well, also, I mean that that that is not a long runway, those three ones, the direction they were landing there's three runways and the, the way they were told to to line the flex. Joe was told to line up and and things like that.
Speaker 3:And the way they crossed it from what I heard was not clear. So that's unfortunate. But back to the mags with the prop Treat it like it's hot. You know, you look both ways. When you cross the street, right, you look, you're cleared to cross. You know, clear left, clear right, cleared to cross. I mean that's what you say, that's what we do, and I mean that's what you say, that's what we do. And I mean, did they not see that? How did they not see that Southwest on short final?
Speaker 3:But the one gripe, I will say that one angle that I saw on that was when you look at the Southwest before the camera zooms way in that flex, you could barely see that flex jet is so far down the runway it's at the opposite end of the runway and when it zooms in to really capture the landing, the touchdown of that southwest, which obviously, then it caught the whole thing.
Speaker 3:That flex jet, uh, challenger, whatever it was, uh, prater, whatever it was, um, I mean it comes like right. I mean it looks like they're a thousand feet apart and I don't know how close it ultimately was, but I just noticed the perspective totally got skewed once that camera zoomed all the way in. Um, obviously still would have been bad and I haven't gone to look and see how long those three ones are at midway and how much room maybe he could have had and could he have gotten it down and stopped. And who really cares? The guy shouldn't have been across the runway. And it's just again a symptom of of these super congested airports. We just keep trying to cram more airplanes in in the same amount of time and how we're getting along as well as we are is honestly almost a miracle. The endeavor when we talked about it has nothing to do with congestion, but I just pulled up a runway runway map of klna which is lantana.
Speaker 1:Okay, palm beach county air park, west palm beach. Uh, I want to say it was because I was. I was flying with a guy named Andy Laws. He was the chief instructor at the time, so I was probably working on my CFI, because the CFI I did my commercial with he wasn't a CFI for two years yet. So I had to go to Andy and I'm on the map here and it's runway 22 in Lantana.
Speaker 1:We're about to take off runway 22. And it's runway 22 in Lantana. We're about to take off runway 22,. And full throttle, because Lantana, if you pull up the KLNA map, it's a triangle with kind of not a perfect triangle, so like you have little intersections at the very each corner of the triangle there's intersections. So we're taking off runway 22, full power, starting to, starting to roll. And I have the corner of my right eye I see someone coming in on 16, a plane like right there, and lock full, cut the power, lock up the brakes, so we skid off like not off, but I think our left wheel and our nose gear might have been off the runway because I was like turning to to avoid this plane and stop from crossing this runway. And uh, yeah, it was just that was closer than I don't know how you define what's close or not. Like that was within probably 10, 15 feet, I would assume. The two airplanes came from us on takeoff and this other guy on landing.
Speaker 3:And I just well, when the wingspan is 35 feet and somebody comes within 15 feet of you, oh yeah, oh yeah, it was close. Less than half a wingspan. That is, oh, potentially catastrophic.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it was scary, got the heart rate pumping. Yeah, I'm glad you saw him.
Speaker 3:Oh, I can't. Even I would have called it a day. Let's go put this plane away. We'll come back to this tomorrow.
Speaker 1:No, we circled back man back at this tomorrow.
Speaker 2:no, we circled back man read of the takeoff there was there may have been profanities spoken over the radio, but the guy didn't call in I don't even know if he had the radio on or what was what was going on.
Speaker 1:He never made a call. We were hearing other traffic in in the vicinity.
Speaker 3:Yeah.
Speaker 1:We were making calls, we heard other people's calls, like other people were commenting on it, like afterwards, like our radio was working yeah, wasn't. Like when you were doing a flight review and Mr Q and the 206 got mad at us and it ended up being because Scott's radio wasn't working.
Speaker 3:Right, right, yeah, I'm glad you saw it. I mean, that's all too easy to happen. You know, I know I'm guilty of this numerous times. You're out doing a flight instruction with somebody and you're at a relatively busy airport it can be busy. You're out just beating up the pattern, lap after lap after lap, and you're trying to talk. If it's a busy day, a nice day, you turn the volume down and you forget to turn it back up after you're done talking. I had that happen numerous times. I still have that happen at work.
Speaker 3:Sometimes I'll have to make an announcement to the back or something like that, and I'll turn the volume down on comm one and then, when I'm supposed to be talking on the radio, when it's my turn to talk, do all the radios I'll be like, ah, I'm back, they'll say no changes and I'll forget to turn the comm one volume back up, like it might be that way for five minutes. I'll forget to turn the comm one volume back up, Like it might be that way for five minutes. I'll miss a radio call or whatever. It's just those things happen and the reason doesn't matter it's.
Speaker 3:There are several reasons why that can happen Wrong frequency, volumes turned down, headset disconnected from the, from the jack, or the battery ran out on the Bluetooth or whatever, I don't know. I mean, there's just so many things that can lead to the miscommunication or lack of communication and you got to see and avoid. I mean back to basics with this prop thing, with these airplane, these near misses or these midair collisions, obviously, with that CRJ and that blackhawk. They they're saying now that they did, they did try to pull up at the last minute, but again back to that inertia thing that may have worked in a different airplane or if they weighed 10 000 pounds less.
Speaker 3:Yeah, you, you just don't know you know, if they would have seen it one second earlier and they weighed 10 000 pounds less would have been a non-e. If they would have seen it one second earlier and they weighed 10,000 pounds less, it would have been a non-event, we would have heard about it. But it's just crazy how all that stuff works. You've got to see and avoid just basics. We've got to have these basics instilled. It wouldn't have helped in that instance.
Speaker 3:But you looking, you seeing, you know that that, uh, jet it midway, look both ways clear, make sure I mean, yeah, but I guess actually in the midway thing there's three runways. They could. That's something I see sometimes too is if you have multiple runways, are they lined up for the other runway, the parallel to us, and those, those three ones? They're all very close, very closely spaced. It would have been almost impossible for them to tell which runway they were lined up on. Now that I think about it. But it's also kind of like, if it looks like, if you're not sure, you got to ask, you know, I mean what's the worst that they can say but see, I got no problem, sound like an idiot and are you?
Speaker 1:yeah, hollywood, the little that was the most flying I did out of an airport that had the parallel runways and there was times it'd be weird because it's like you're turning in while another plane's turning in and it just feels like you're way too close and it's like the drifting over and it's like, okay, we're doing this do that shit at 210 knots. Yeah, I was doing it super slow speeds.
Speaker 3:Oh yeah, it's crazy. Yeah, you got somebody already established on final and you're making this turn into final right next to him and it's like man, it's crazy.
Speaker 1:Yeah, you do the I was just going to say Francis, in the chat 3-1 right is actually closed, and now taxi hotel at Midway.
Speaker 3:Wow, well, I mean, I wish I could pull that. It would have been nice if I would have known that before we started talking.
Speaker 2:Man but either way.
Speaker 3:so 3-1 right. Okay, so this looks like it happened on 3-1 left or 3-1 center, I'm not entirely sure. So I guess that makes sense.
Speaker 1:Francis for the save in the live chat. Thank you, Francis.
Speaker 3:Yeah, I mean yeah, it still doesn't change the fact the runways are very close, like, let's say, 3-1 left was open and 3-1 right or, I'm sorry, 3-1 center was turned into a taxiway, so you had 3-1 left, three, one right, and then they were way spaced out. And then that that you know, jet, that crossed. If they could have looked and be like, ah no, that looks like they're definitely biased over there to the right, that's not my runway, or that's likely not my runway, but having those two that are so close together still open and the one that that would have given them some separation is closed, yeah, that doesn't help things, but yeah, either way, they're close together and it's just perfect storm. Perfect storm. But you got to look and, if in doubt, ask Jeez, oh man.
Speaker 1:All right, we're almost two and a half hours now, so I feel like we got a good, solid one in.
Speaker 3:Yeah, knock some dust off.
Speaker 1:Yeah, for those I mentioned, we might talk about it. We shut the show down. I sent out an email. I sent out stuff on Pilot Ground. I don't, I was going to. I don't know if I ended up sending one out on X. This is over what? A year and a half ago now.
Speaker 1:Yeah, we just got to the point where we couldn't schedule anymore. You were, I was going into software school, you were going into a new job at the airlines. Yeah, we planned on that, not rolling out the way it did, but that's how it. We just couldn't do it. Uh, and that's why the show basically shut down. But we're, we're not, we don't have any plans right now to go back into the regular scheduled, like programming how we were doing. Um, it's just we're, we're maintaining the the bare minimum, like the show, the podcast feed stuff, um, so it's in your podcast player, the rumble channel, um, stuff that doesn't cost much to keep up. And then, like, right now we're doing this show, so we bring up the bare necessities to do a show for a month and, um, yeah, it'll be just very hit or miss. Um, we, we like doing this. We just can't do it the way we were doing it before, so it'll just be very, very random. Hopefully not 18 months like it was this last time, right?
Speaker 2:hopefully.
Speaker 1:But yeah, probably not even every month. Hopefully we'll get another one in this year and do it once in a while, maybe slowly get up to, I don't know, maybe once a quarter would be. Would be fun, I'd like that, but we don't know. Yeah, it'll be, it'll be random. We're still uh, we still exist, we uh.
Speaker 3:I mean, yeah, I mean for me, you know, I just appreciate you guys. I appreciate you guys being here. Um, you know, I I think about all you guys all the time and we had like a little family going and and I miss it and uh, I mean I don't know, I doubt that came through. Really I'm saying it now, but you know, I miss hanging out with the guys and this is a good opportunity to knock the dust off and hopefully that we can. Yeah, I mean if we could do monthly or quarterly or so tyler just said quarterly, I mean that it would be. That'd be great if we could do something like that and yeah, be sweet uh see what we can do.
Speaker 1:But yeah, appreciate you guys I'm having a baby here in the next, any day now, so that may throw a wrench in the works for like oh man, more than you know, buddy for For a soon follow-up, so like the quarterly might be a stretch to do another one three months from now. So but yeah, we'll see. And I had some other point I wanted to get across.
Speaker 2:I didn't write it down so I forgot.
Speaker 1:But yeah, oh, I was going to fiddle around. Uh, not to get in too many detail, I have a it's an open source software system called discourse, I think, or just something. I was going to try to put that on Amazon AWS with Pilot Ground to fool around with it and tinker with it like the old Pilot Ground site I have, because I'll be using it for a business. I started a software business. I started, but I want to do it lower stakes, so I was going to play around with it. I have a Robert Berger channel on Rumble. If you go to robertbergercom right now, it'll forward you and it'll probably be that way for at least the next year to that channel. So if you're into the IT side of fiddling around with that and want to play around with this, I'm going to set it up on Amazon AWS, something we should have done maybe with Pilot Ground, because I'm thinking I could do it for way like less than 10% of the cost we were paying for the software Pilot Ground used to run on. But yeah, so anyway, if you're interested in the IT stuff, check that out.
Speaker 1:I was going to stream today tonight either way. If you and or Scott couldn't show up. I was going to go live on that channel to set up that on Amazon, start the process of setting that up on Amazon AWS. So yeah, very technical, very IT-ish, but there's a lot of overlap. So if you're interested in that kind of stuff, check out the channel. Lee's got a Super Cub now. I'm trying to talk him into doing some content maybe.
Speaker 3:We'll see what we can do that would be more.
Speaker 1:It'd be just more Lee doing stuff, maybe videos or whatever. I don't know with that, but we'll let you know if that is the case, if he does anything.
Speaker 3:You guys will be the first to know.
Speaker 1:Robertbergercom B-E-R-G-E-R. That forwards to my personal Rumble channel. I started, I got one video on there as of this recording. I'm probably going to start fiddling around with some of that stuff with trying to set it up. I've never done it be a live stream? Yeah, we'll see, but uh, if lee's around, maybe you go in the chat, talk in the chat while I'm doing it. If you got a layover or something yeah, man probably doing the weekend.
Speaker 1:You work most weekends now yeah you're on the road or in the skies? It's not considered. On the road, is it? When you're an airline pilot? Uh, in the skies, it's not considered. On the road, is it when you're an?
Speaker 3:airline pilot. That's what we say. We still say on the road, On the road that beautiful yellow uniform of yours.
Speaker 1:Yep, that's it. Yep, okay, yeah, thanks for everybody who tuned in live.
Speaker 2:Yes, thank you.
Speaker 1:Yeah, keep subscribed to the feed. The feed subscribe to the rumble channel. Rumblecom slash far aim podcast. Um, I don't know, I don't think we'll do much of youtube anymore. I like rumble, I own rumble stock now. So, um, probably be focused just on that, but see ya.
Speaker 3:All right, sounds good, see you guys. Thanks again.
Speaker 1:This is gonna be the part where I don't know. Oh Lee just signed off, he just killed it, just left me hanging while I figure out how to turn off the live stream. So I don't know, we're gonna we're gonna hit some buttons here and see what happens. I think the chat will go for a little bit in Rumble. Oh Lee's still in the chat. I'm still on the thing as I try, because he hit the button to leave. But I have software locked on. There's got to be a button to I can remove the water. I can turn the water mark on, is that it? Is that all I got? Okay, drink a little out, pour a little out, pour a little in okay.
Speaker 3:Oh, that's how small those things are yeah oh that's an additive. I thought it was still a can. Oh, you can buy it in a can, it's just more expensive so if you add that to how many ounces, what's the alcohol percent when you do that? Do you know? Have you figured that out?
Speaker 1:no, because it's this says it's 33 percent key to haul. Okay, so okay, and how many ounces?
Speaker 3:is that like shot?
Speaker 2:oh my god, we're, we're live.
Speaker 3:I think, it's two. Okay, so it's like adding a shot of whiskey to something I think we're on rumble. It says live chat. I mean there's eight people in here, Nobody said anything.
Speaker 1:This is 14 days ago. Okay, anything, this is 14 days ago. I can't tell if we're actually live somebody in the chat. We got seven, let us know viewers.
Speaker 3:Yeah, help us out, if you're seven, I think we are, though well, I think, let us know Viewers. Yeah, help us out. If you're seeing it Seven, I think we are, though, oh, I think it just yeah the video just popped up, did it? Yeah On mine. Good, okay, this has been a while. Sure has Over a year.
Speaker 1:What are we talking about? I got a couple ideas, I did a lot of show prep, but I didn't know what you guys had in mind. What were you thinking, scott, I'll tell you, but I don't want to sidetrack you if you already had something in mind. I got it written down what I was going to. Yeah, yeah but if I go off, on all the stuff that I had planned. It's just gonna derail you so okay, I don't want to, I don't even want to.
Speaker 3:You know, taint it at all yeah, fair enough yeah fair enough, as long as you're not going to forget what you had. No, I won. I won't forget.
Speaker 2:All right no.
Speaker 1:Perfect, we're going to get into a magazine article here A magazine.
Speaker 2:I got highlights. Do you still make magazines?
Speaker 1:Yeah, oh, I'm way behind. Okay, I think I'm almost a year behind, so it's old stuff, anything we're going to be able to weigh in on.
Speaker 3:I mean not knowing what article. Okay, all right, keep it authentic and genuine. That's what we do.
Speaker 1:It has to do with the keys. Okay, the keys, the key, the magneto Like Florida keys oh. Oh.
Speaker 3:Wrong keys For real, like magnetos.
Speaker 1:Yeah, the key switch, this article. I thought it would be helpful. It's like a public service announcement.
Speaker 2:Okay.
Speaker 1:So are you drinking the ketones Scott?
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:We told people 7.30, so we're just going to kind of hang out, I think, before we legitimately start See if somebody comes to chat. But what has your experience?
Speaker 2:been.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it's hit and miss, ketone wise. I mean, sometimes you'll get a buzz from it and sometimes I get nothing. Really, yeah, how is that? I don't know how many times have you tried first?
Speaker 3:yeah, yeah, there you go I don't know.
Speaker 1:But I mean, sometimes I the first time I definitely got a buzz, but then, like after that, I never quite really got there again. You know, okay, I don't know it's, it's different, it's not worth it I don't. Well, I would try it. I would, I would recommend trying it. It's not. It's not gonna get you drunk like regular alcohol does, though okay it's, it's hard to explain, like.
Speaker 1:So what percentage of hit rate do you have of of actually getting a buzz off of the fake alcohol? Well, I don't know, because sometimes I mix it with real alcohol and then then I just I don't really know what is what you know?
Speaker 3:yeah, what's doing it? Yeah, yeah, it's not healthy?
Speaker 1:yeah well, I think it's actually healthier than than regular alcohol. The track record is what bothers me, like we have thousands of years of evidence of what traditional alcohol does to the human body.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it's not great, but it's known. It's not good, it's known. Yeah, but this is very unknown.
Speaker 1:Yeah Well, it's like. I mean there's nothing in it that's toxic, though I mean it's, it's r13, butane dial or whatever is the ingredient, that's not it's like not a toxic substance, substance, I guess, it's just like it. It's a, it's a form of alcohol, it's in the alcohol family, but it's a different type of alcohol, like regular alcohol like you buy at the store has ethanol alcohol in it.
Speaker 2:Okay.
Speaker 1:And this is butanedyl or something, or butanol or something, I don't know how it's pronounced. I put it in the show description so people can see it if they want. Lee, double check your mic before we actually start. I don't know if you're coming through on the actual mic or not.
Speaker 3:Yeah, I'm not talking. Oh, test, test, test.
Speaker 1:The first time I drank them. I definitely got a buzz, though.
Speaker 3:I remember that, yeah, and I'm kind of let down now with the new information as we've gotten more sample size.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I mean, I don't know, I'll let you know how it goes tonight, I guess. But it does give you like a little bit of like a relaxed feeling, but it's not like an alcohol buzz, you know. Yeah, yeah I mean buzz, you know, yeah, it might. It might take the edge off a little bit, but it's not gonna get you drunk. Well, you're definitely not using your, your, your, your microphone. It says internal microphone Okay.
Speaker 3:Troubleshooting.
Speaker 1:I was working on my spreadsheet to make sure I have something, because I'm honestly not done.
Speaker 3:Good information when you get into flying stuff. Well, yeah, when we eventually get there and tell me again how I it might be on the right.
Speaker 1:You can adjust settings on the oh on the right of riverside yeah, where it says griff yeah, hold on a second, my computer's so slow yeah, there should be your camera, your microphone and your speakers.
Speaker 3:Mic.
Speaker 1:It says no microphone. Now that's not good. Just select Samsung Q2U. Your speakers are going through it, your Samsung Q2U mic, but your microphone's not. It says no microphone. I don't think anybody's listening. There's nobody in the chat we got six people, so I assume we got three. Yeah, because Francis, aviator Francis, just came in from San Antonio, nice. Hello Francis, we're just hanging out. We'll start doing something podcast-y here at 7.30. I like this. Yeah, first chat in a while. Well, you are adjusting the button, lee.
Speaker 3:Yeah First chat in a while you are adjusting the button Lee.
Speaker 1:Yeah, no, I know, I know I can see that. Is your microphone on? Is the switch on your mic on? Yeah, it's on. I got a green light. Okay, light, okay. I just got to figure out where extension thing is. Francis, where, francis, where are you at in your ratings? I'm just curious. We got 10 minutes to kill here.
Speaker 3:How about now Is?
Speaker 1:that better, yes or no, I can hear you. It still says it's on the internal microphone on my side. Tap your mic, hit your mic. Definitely not Okay. Did you always plug your?
Speaker 1:headphones directly into your microphone. Yeah, okay, now I can hear you double again. Yeah, yeah, I don't have any of the song rights. It's like the intro and stuff. I can't have any of the song rights. So, like the intro and stuff, I can't do that. You don't have any song rights. No, like the intro song we always used. Yeah, you don't Some of that stuff. You can't use it anymore.
Speaker 2:You pay monthly and I haven't paid it in like a year.
Speaker 1:So Can we just steal something I, you could. I didn't. I didn't plug in my board because I didn't want the temptation. Yeah, this is the same computer you used, isn't it? Lee? I can't hear Lee, I can't either. Man, this will be the stream. That almost was yeah, what's his deal? I don't know, I'm just trying to fan on.
Speaker 2:I'm sweating.
Speaker 1:already you got to entertain the audience. Now, scott, for a second. Oh Jesus, the massive audience by yourself. Well, currently I'm trying to figure out what Lee's doing. We can't hear you, Lee. Oh no, it's just me. I don't really have anything to talk about pricing out some parts here.
Speaker 2:That's about it oh good you're back. Yeah, oh you, you got an extra person in and the chats, the chat's on fire.
Speaker 1:Okay, tyler's here. Nice tyler, we're waiting on lee. Technical difficulties as usual. Uh, I'm not sure we're going to leave on Lee. Technical difficulties as usual, I'm not sure. Yeah, we'll see. If Scott fell out, we might be able to proceed, but Scott and I have tried to do a show by ourselves before yeah we can't do a show Turns out really badly. We would be postponing without Lee, so hopefully Lee can get his mic working. Yeah, because if not, I don't know, we don't really know anything about aviation.
Speaker 1:So yeah, we're this song. This podcast is very Lee-centric as far as anything useful I take apart airplanes.
Speaker 2:So I kind of know, yeah, that kind of stuff would you take apart recently another pa28 140.
Speaker 1:Okay, I just bought a 180 uh I don't know, oh yes, yeah, there we go. That sounds great. Praise God.
Speaker 3:I'm glad it worked, because I didn't know what else to do.
Speaker 1:Tyler's in the chat. Yes, lee looks fantastic in yellow.
Speaker 3:I will say Yellow is my favorite color.
Speaker 1:Lee looks good in that. Okay, six minutes. A couple people rolling in. Tyler's excited, I'm pumped. Lee and I were excited today.
Speaker 3:Oh, I'm so excited, Been looking so forward to this and we've been talking about kind of doing something.
Speaker 1:you know it was our intention to do a episode last year and that can kind of give you an idea of how organized we are.
Speaker 3:As if they didn't already know.
Speaker 1:In that we didn't even get one done last year. Yeah, so the goal this year was one, so we're hopefully going to hit that. We're going to hit that If we get crazy maybe another one.
Speaker 1:Seems like we might be there, scott. What was that I said? It seems like we might be there. I can't hear he's not talking into his mic, I can't. Is he even here talking into his mic? I can't. Is he even here? Scott, is your mic working? Can you hear me now? Yes, okay, okay, praise God. I thought we had another mic issue. I'd rather just use this mic, but I know you're bitching me for that. Yeah, because it's awful. I can't edit this, everything's just. That's why I said we might as well just live stream it, because it's got to be live to tape. Yeah, and if we didn't live stream it, you guys would. You guys would assume that I could edit a bunch of stuff out and I, I can't because I don't have the adobe suite right now I assume that anyway.
Speaker 1:Yeah, so if we do it live, that helps, and then I can just push it live to tape, then we're good Straight to the puck. Not this section. I probably won't. I'm not really worried about what I say, because you'll edit it out, right? No, I don't have the Adobe suite anymore.
Speaker 3:That's what he said. That's what he just said. Yeah, that's what I thought he said.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:He said, he said yeah, he said don't, you don't have to be that careful because, yeah, he could edit it right. Yeah, roger got it loud and clear, okay. Um, yeah, I've been looking forward to this all day.
Speaker 3:As we've gotten closer, and I knew it was gonna happen, I just, you know, just built into a crescendo. And now here we are.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it was long overdue, for sure. What are we talking about? We were going to kick it off at 730-ish. Okay, when, oh with? I was thinking Husky versus Super Cub, because Lee's very dialed in right now in the searching for airplanes process. So we've been on the group text discussing a lot of Husky Super Cub. I figure we could just talk about it in person. Go through, reiterate some of the other stuff.
Speaker 3:Get some feedback from the chat too, I'm sure yeah.
Speaker 1:Which airplane should Lee get? It's a conundrum.
Speaker 3:It was a conundrum.
Speaker 1:It was a conundrum. We won't get too deep. We'll let it be a cliffhanger. Maybe we won't mention which model you've ended up actually hopefully got a done deal on.
Speaker 2:Mm-hmm.
Speaker 1:Ooh, Scott, you hungry for Arby's. I would be why.
Speaker 3:Beef and cheddar. Double beef and cheddar.
Speaker 1:Tyler's offering to send some roast beef over your way. No, that's all right, I did just eat, so I mean I'm not saying I wouldn't eat again, but I don't need to that was if people missed it live.
Speaker 1:I don't know if that ever made it to air because the episode was so bad that I don't think I ever published that. But for the people on the live stream, they remember that Tyler ordered Uber Eats Arby's to Scott's house Live on air. I appreciated that, tyler. That was very nice of you. It was a great, great thing All right. Yeah, a couple minutes. I just got an email from Rumble that it started streaming, so maybe other people will get that email.
Speaker 2:We'll get a couple more before we start yeah, we'll talk about that, Tyler.
Speaker 3:We'll get to that. Thanks for bringing that up. I didn't even know where we left it off at the airplane search, because one of the last episodes we did I think that I saw was we were, we were going through shopping through, uh, controller, controller, yeah, whatever it was didn't show up and it was that.
Speaker 1:Still, I. I feel like we could do that more often than a legitimate show. It's worthless to put on the actual podcast RSS feed because it's just. Unless you see what we're looking at, it's kind of boring. But as far as just video, it's great, like that's. I love that because it pulls so much nuggets that Lee has in his head that otherwise wouldn't Nuggets being come to the surface. You know, lee, you, lee has in his head that otherwise wouldn't Nuggets being come to the surface. You know, lee, you got nuggets in your head.
Speaker 2:You got nuggets in your head.
Speaker 3:Sometimes I'm just happy to have anything in there.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I do need guiding.
Speaker 3:There's a fair amount in there. It needs guided out, though, that's for sure.
Speaker 1:All right, though that's for sure. All right, it's 7.30. We got nine in the live stream. Let's do it.